Doctor Money Matters

Episode 22 Doctor Money Matters. 

Ali Chaudhary, MD

Please excuse any transcription errors as this is a Google Voice Recognition machine generated transcript and has not been edited.

Welcome to another Doctor Money Matters episode. This episode is about taking control as a physician and learning your value. Many doctors don’t understand their dollar value as practicing physicians. It’s not discussed formally in most training situations and we generally are happy with the increase in salary we get from residency/fellowship to becoming attendings. My guest today Dr. Ali Chaudhary had similar experiences as many of us as he transitioned from training. However, he decided to do something about and start his own locums company when he realized how much these agencies were making on top of what they were paying him. In this episode we talk about how he did this, why he did this and how his experience can help other physicians discover their own value. We also discuss the pros and cons of going independent. Whether you are happy with your current employment situation or are itching for a change, being aware of your value will place you in a better position for the future. We also talk briefly about angel investing and Ali’s experience with it. He is from the Silicon Valley area and so it comes in his DNA. It’s a high risk, high reward type situation that has become more accessible for physicians recently. I’m not recommending it for most of us, but we should be aware of all the investment possibilities out there.

 

I want to thank Dr. Chaudhary for being my guest on this episode of Doctor Money Matters. I hope he inspired you to take control of your own career and learn more about your financial value as a physician. Doctors need to help make the healthcare system more efficient. This is one way to bring down overall healthcare costs while keeping those who provide the care paid appropriately.

Ali’s company can be found at locumsunited.com

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Transcript

Main Intro 

Intro Outro: 
[0:15] Okay welcome to another episode of the doctor Money Matters podcast this episode is about taking control as a position and learning the value that you bring to the Healthcare System.

[0:26] Many doctors don’t understand their dollar value is practicing Physicians it’s not discussed formally in most training situations and generally were pretty happy with the increase that we get in salary from residency and fellowship to when we become attendings.

[0:39] I guess today dr. Ali Chaudhary had similar experiences that many of us did when he transition from training however.

[0:47] He decided to do something about it and start his own locums company when he realized how much these agencies were making on top of what they were paying him.

[0:56] So this episode we talked about how he started his own company why he did this in and along the way I hope his experience can help other Physicians discover their own value.

[1:07] We discuss the pros and cons of going independent and.

[1:12] We also briefly touch on his interest in Angel Investing he’s from Silicon Valley so it comes with the DNA out there.

[1:19] Angel Investing is high-risk high-reward that has become more accessible for most positions.

[1:25] Recently and I’m not recommending it for everyone but we should be aware of these investment Avenues his services from the dollar value that he was paid.

[1:35] In relation to the dollar value that the locums company and his employers were actually billing out at.

[1:41] I think most of us don’t necessarily realize the true value of the services that we provide rather we mostly just focus on the take-home pay that we get.

[1:52] And while it’s important to understand that and I’m a big advocate of understanding personal finance.

[1:57] I also think it’s important to understand the the value of the health care that you provide how it actually is being billed out as the more information that you understand about this side of it the better off.

[2:10] You will be on a personal financial level as well.

Tarang Patel: 
[2:14] Okay welcome to another episode of the doctor Money Matters podcast my guess today is dr. Ali Chaudhary and emergency medicine physician who is the president and chief medical officer of Locum Physicians United.

[2:27] We’re going to be talking today about his experience transitioning from.

[2:31] Traditional practice into his own independent model Ali welcome to the podcast.

[2:38] So tell me a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your educational in training back then.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[2:45] Sure I went to Ross University in the Caribbean in Dominica small island which.
What’s unfortunate devastated by the recent hurricanes and so I graduated from Ross at 2011,
and then proceed started residency in Akron Ohio at Akron City Hospital for emergency medicine.

[3:04] Completed that in 2014 and then was hoping to go back to California which is where I’m from the bay area but,
you know the cost of living such as prohibitively expensive and so it didn’t make sense with me with my,
huge student debt to start out living in the place I was going to be so expensive so that moving to to Pennsylvania to Allentown or we had some friends so I’ve been in Allentown since then.
Read works as an employee at a pretty large hospital system not too far from here to the highest volume ERS in the country.

[3:41] So great grapes in pathology Greystar ask where people work with Greg Heights love my job and then.

Tarang Patel: 
[3:52] Okay so now the Alyssa let’s go into the recent graduate and most Physicians who.

[4:00] Got out of training recently one of the knocks from the older generation has been that they don’t think in terms of the independent model that they’re mostly.
Tend to be employees and like you mention one of the driving factors I think is the reality is that the loan that is so high.

[4:16] Can you and then on top of that you’re saying that you know you really like this job and it was a good job so so what made you transition.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[4:23] Yeah that’s a good question unless I worked there for 2 years and honestly just love my family like,
on way from Palm I really felt comfortable in my in my surroundings but at the same time I felt a couple of myself as well I guess.
I looked around me in and saw people who I’ve been working for 5 10 15 20 years and we’re sort of in the same system and.
Something about that for me just died I could envision myself doing the same thing so next 20 years not that don’t like what I do.
But I believe I started to develop myself and did some sort of soul-searching and and felt like I want to do something.
Addition to medicine that was something completely different what that was I didn’t know.
But I knew that I could envision myself working full-time,
when we go to medical school or before we go to medical school.
And how life is going to be when we reach the light at the end of the tunnel you know.
And spy got there it was kind of like she knows it versus dog excitement and their paycheck after laws you know that things easy,
the infrastructure of of healthcare and end in the way that your practice is dictated by things beyond your control so sort of started to kind of notes,
put a damper on the whole thing for me and made me feel a little bit.

[5:55] Trade it I guess so I kind of was like this isn’t what I thought I was going to be doing you know I can mean a lot of Physicians I kind of feel.
Similarly jaded not necessarily because they hate their jobs or whatever but I think there’s a lot of red tape to thought of you know that administrators,
administrative God constrains Center strange that can make decisions practice in ways that may not be the way that they would prefer to practice.

[6:27] So I think those are some of the things that look like me to come starts thinking about okay well what am I going to do in addition to this that can help me feel more fulfilled.

Tarang Patel: 
[6:36] So how long were you in to Yonkers you say you just trained you finish training in 2014 how long into your job did you eat before you first started noticing those kind of feelings.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[6:48] Who’s going to win a half I mean,
initially was trying to get myself comfortable coming out of residency was texting by myself and develop this style and not having attending looking over my shoulder,
so just got to getting used to the practice of medicine which you obviously it’s it’s a lifelong Pursuits,
things are starting to take out just noticed some of these ideas and then things got to start to turn in my head about a year and a half or so into the job.

Tarang Patel: 
[7:16] Is out about the time you started this company or.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[7:18] So the company started because I guy I started doing locums about,
about a year into my full-time job as a way to help pay off my student debt a little bit quicker. A good salary but I feel like I want to be like.
Am I have three hydras low so I didn’t want to be in debt for too long so I started pick up some on the side through the standard that are out there.
How to tell book Spanish my first welcome job and then fortunate to have any ideas experience,
next couple of ones but I quickly realized that after working you know about a week or so at one of the sites that I enjoy working at,
I was making as much money as I was making it a whole month in a whole month at my full-time job so that definitely pick my interest I was like huh.

Tarang Patel: 
[8:07] And this was during I mean you are still working.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[8:11] I was still working full-time I’ll still working full-time I look into other agencies right and is acting my cousin who I didn’t encourage me,
just to look until welcome to cuz he had left his full-time job at a large hospital system in California provides great benefits and and all that stuff,
he ended up doing locums full Tyson Nelson ER physician in Upstate New York and was telling me he was,
doing much much much better financially than he was in in California so that I can actually first of all I didn’t make a whole lot of sense for me to stay at my full-time job anymore,
just out of time that I’m spending you know working 1416 shifts a month full time.

[8:56] 882 hour shifts I could work maybe 67% of that and make more than I was making my full-time job so just on the numbers and time standpoint it didn’t add up,
and also as I was going to miss the Locum citing a locums I start to realize that there’s many in efficiencies within the system itself,
and I also start to learn about the amount of money.
I’ll just give example like well let me put it in in just percentages about 50%.
Per hour of what I was making so for example if I was making like I said I have my math may not come out right here but so if I was making XML,
per hour to an hour for example they were making a hundred bucks an hour and when I learned about that was like wait a minute.
I’m the one that’s doing all the work here like idea of course they found the job they got the contract and they had somebody sent some e-mails back and forth,
but like you know I’m the one seeing patients my malpractice is on the line in a my career and all that stuff is is I’m the one on the back and forth and making things happen and making half.

Tarang Patel: 
[10:14] Okay sweetie. Just a little bit because the numbers are exactly what people are unaware of traditional a finder’s fee.
Sometimes usually 10% maybe a little bit more and you know if you had an agent if you’re an actor it’s also about 10% these guys were making 50% for every hour basically that you were working.
And so it’s over the course of the week you filled out at $10,000 for the week they actually charge $15,000 to the hospital.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[10:51] Right and that’s not very says there’s not a standard 50% a day that for every company across the board that the Dentistry averages around 23 to like 35% or so how to depend on how.
Price of doctor knows to ask for in the beginning I just didn’t know if you know how much my value was Asian and so I didn’t really ask for much but then I started going to realize and learn along,
and the way that you list my value I can ask for a lot higher than what they’re telling me because you member.
And there are sales people in the way that they earn money is by Commission on what they take home.
Otherwise I don’t get paid so that the goal is to build a hospital as much as I possibly can and then pay the physician the least amount that they can that’s reasonable that the doctor will take it so they can have a large portion the middle they can take home or percentage of that you know.

Tarang Patel: 
[11:40] No I think that that’s critical I think you you know you you just Express something that a lot of positions particularly those who are coming out of training don’t really understand is what their value is and as you learn that.
Obviously you know for most people at it’s taking you know takes years to really understand the value of the monetary value that they provide and so you know I’m glad that you’re in sand and kind of.
Album disseminate this information more readily because honestly.

[12:11] That’s what this is about is that you know we positions have a certain value and these companies provide a service and that and they should get.
Compensated for that but I do think that when we forget the realizes that then it’s negotiable everything is negotiable so I’m glad that you bring that.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[12:27] And you know that’s a good point that you mention about the value and I think that is an employee often times you know you don’t really get a sense for your market value,
because I think that the doctors get paid like you know 40 50 Grand a year jumping that end if you triple or quadruple that or more you’ll take it.
You’re not going to argue hoe like my shop around little bit here and there but you don’t really get your understanding market value well.
Become a free agent I guess I called it and I started kind of shop around doing Independence stuff at the locums I’ve been started to really realize what my market value really was I think part was employed model.

[13:07] Make sure it’s awesome benefits at you and then say behave here’s a modest salary salary then and then let’s not talk about that too much side of that is when you kind of see no.
Get to see the other side of the coin in your like wait a minute this is I’m a lot more potential than I thought I ever had and this isn’t just my experience has been several people that I know personally who had a similar experience as well.

Tarang Patel: 
[13:32] Right and so what’s all these are our good point that I think the numbers.
You said you were making more you were working you know 60 to 70% in comparison to what you were as a full-time employee tell you were employed when you were you in a private Hospital in play previous.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[13:54] As a Hospital employee.

Tarang Patel: 
[13:55] Okay so you were at that point you were pretty much it wasn’t like a partnership track where you were on a graded salary increase I mean how how did you get compensated previously was it a salary was a model it was a salary.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[14:06] It was a salary it was salary with sent me know what’s the percentage of that being a bonus based on your performance and all that but.

Tarang Patel: 
[14:16] And so when you made the transition when you left that practice what kind of feedback did you get from your calling for it where they saying you’re crazy or like I wish I could do this.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[14:29] I think it’s interesting people think it it takes some level of courage and bravery to go out and do something like this and.
Ali hilarious because like I miss you more money now than I ever did.
Get out so like it’s almost like there’s there’s no I’m not I didn’t skip a beat as a matter of fact I’ve been better off I’m better off now that I was you know in terms of financially and then having the time,
start my own business and do other things I have to do want you to always do so yeah people take is okay maybe I will join Hospital’s employee,
it’s like I did or you’ll you get you know your old trade-in ended by the group and you’ll have some equity in it after you,
yarn. For every couple years of somebody in and all that or you’ll join like a large contract manager includes like the team health and carols.
Large corporations those are pretty much the only,
continue as you know they’re they’re making it more difficult for private practices to exist and there are some out there still but I think even these Democratic groups are going to find it harder and harder to compete.
Does all the money that’s out there with these big corporations so they’re Dee the locals model is is very,
it does it’s not much information about it it’s kind of an unknown people tend to fear what they don’t know so people meet it was skepticism they weren’t really sure if this was a good decision from.
These questions and you know I wouldn’t have done it just all of a sudden go in blindly myself before I started doing it.

[16:07] Alongside my full-time job,
so I think that helped me kind of get clarity on okay this is a path I can take that is not that hard as there’s not a whole lot of town you just have to come and go but differently but I totally prefer this because I,
I have way more flexibility I can choose my schedule I can choose to do no more nice for the rest of my life I want to and I I can earn more.

Tarang Patel: 
[16:29] So let’s let’s talk about it a little bit more about this they so when you when you.

[16:34] Decided okay I’m going to do this and you were doing in addition to your full-time employee position you were doing this.
Yeah you initially we’re getting locums recruiters asking you to work and you were doing that when you decided okay you know what I’m not going to use them I’m going to try to do this on my own.

[16:52] How did you do did you contact Hospital’s yourself. Did you set up a male practice yourself how did you do that.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[16:58] Yeah so I’ve been fortunate you having come from the Bay Area that’s my brother he is a Silicon Valley entrepreneur used it in finance and instead.
Start his own accelerator in Berkeley in the CEO for about a year and then recently started up his own seat van will invest in real estate companies so he’s at the business start-up guy,
how to see what he was getting involved in and what he was doing with the startups and all that.
Just a world that I had no.
Salary of a formation or knowledge about before because so focused on new residency in boards not stuff,
I I I found that the culture of the Bay Area Is So Tan Valley in an entrepreneurship and Innovation that is is is there to be very motivating and in kind of,
motivated me to do something as well so that I started talking to my brother about what I was doing and what not.
Slow it backwards day to fish in the whole celino’s dentistry in this whole system,
introduce technology to make this whole thing work fishing for smoothing and just different.

[18:21] Okay that’s interesting idea 7 months we spent you know just.
All the time that we had to talk to people on the inside outside we have been there we could online about everything that we could get our hands on and,
send away with the conference that we could do that so we could do.
It was at that point I kind of decided okay I think that you know instead of me going to other companies I should do some of my own with my brother of course that’s a co-founder of the company is truthful.
Done alcohol this background I’d never entertain doing any business but you’re having his.
In my in my corner definitely helps to kind of that starts in Denver.

Tarang Patel: 
[19:07] What are you doing monthly Infinity your clinical work now.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[19:11] Yeah so I could back I work anywhere from like 6 to 8 to 9 shift a month you are shift.

Tarang Patel: 
[19:19] And what’s the standard for a full-time ER physician.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[19:22] They work around a hundred 40 plus hours of all I’m working full-time.
So I guess just like you can break it down depending on how many how long your shifts are so I I cut back to about 6 to 8 shift on average.
And so let’s am I still right now is a little bit hectic.
I would have 24 to 12 22 22 24 days off a month.
And said I could do whatever I want to do is which foods do to start the company so.
I’m a little bit busy. I was working my full-time job because I’m doing the company is all but I think that’s a fair payoff Elitches of the fair she off their side.
We’re pretty much Monday through Friday on an average week on the company,
business development in contracts Taco doctors and getting placements done and then I’ll work every other weekend like 3 or 4 days every other weekend and maybe shift or two here and there throughout the month.

[20:21] There’s some travel involved in that as well of course I probably will once once or twice a month for about a week on average for business development and whatnot.

Tarang Patel: 
[20:28] I’m going to ask you a little bit about it you’re coming specifically and just a second but one of the things I think that that prevents Physicians from going you know Independence.
Is benefits and insurance and on our Facebook conversation you would mention that at that’s not that difficult so to explain to me.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[20:50] Sure why don’t you let people have a misconception about it so low on my work Pace my benefits.
Thanks for your benefits still do your work and your employer is taking that money out of your paycheck and giving the rest of you.
So it’s not like you don’t all of a sudden so I can give you a bunch of benefits for free I mean you’re working for those benefits so.
I look at it like this I mean I’ve had the same concerns that transition but I had luckily some people who had,
dentless before me who can come and get me right direction so I have.
God companies positions,
call Skinner disability life insurance they can basically do that all for you I went through a company called Northwest Mutual and I met somebody who’s been very very helpful there they help me get health insurance,
billion life’s I’m choosing not to put money into my retirement right now because I have other investment that I have my money in that they are guilty but I return,
so I meant I’m using my my my money for that but.

Tarang Patel: 
[22:00] But if you wanted to you would have.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[22:02] I’ll tell him all that set up for you so it’s it’s not like I mean you don’t want to be like oh my God I just lost all my benefits.
Now what do I do who do I call so sometimes you would rather just go with an employee whose.
the benefits on her own it almost seems like it’s such a daunting of you rather just not do it but it’s totally easy I could you know,
Immortal people are friends of mine to these different resources and they’ve been happy with with the benefits of their getting,
so I’m going to give you such a corporation LLC or s-corp.
And you can get your benefits to your company and then that can be a tax deduction as well so,
but all things like a cargo home office part of your your bills that you’re paying for your house so I can electricity and all cell phone bill mileage and all that stuff.

Tarang Patel: 
[23:05] Yeah that’s absolutely any more tax benefits for being an employee.

[23:13] In this case an independent contractor than employees insurance.
You know with the proposed changes to the Affordable Care Act.
Possible repeal but you know that’s the part that is a little bit tenuous but honestly as it has benefits but it’s not like it’s going to.
Get cheaper Insurance just continues to get more expensive and it might be more expensive as.
As an independent contractor but on the flip side like you said you can write off more things so it.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[23:51] You can write it off right I know people that it’s at their jobs who are unhappy with their current employer so it’s not like it’s a great,
you know more flexible in the type of you know you want to listen and get the type of cover that you want,
question best.

Tarang Patel: 
[24:14] I think it’s great that you were able to do this and I think that I hope the positions at least.
Start thinking more about this actually with the Advent of technology and end and more telemedicine things will be more options for.
Physicians to become independent whether it’s part time or whether it’s you know full time.
I think it’s it’s it’s great that you’re able to kind of explain how you did it.
Now let’s talk about your you’re coming so you said you’re spending you know the big chunk of your time and running and then set up a list of your Logan’s coming so it’s let’s talk about it what are you guys doing when did you start and where are you guys now.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[24:58] Yeah so we technically Incorporated the company last year so I think June 2016,
I was still working full-time until I think September October last year so I didn’t get a chance to spend too much time on it because I was still working full-time and you know we had,
babies last year as well so I was,
I’m so busy with that and then it was around this year when I get to the company.
So yeah I do we started last year so we were in full swing,
died in January of this year it’s a tough business because you’re just so much competition that’s out there there’s literally like hundred plus hundreds of the locums companies out there doing the exact same thing in the thing that.
Maybe want to get into it was I felt that there was two things that primarily wanted to dress one was,
the lack of efficiency and just the way the thing to being done just so old school in Antiquated down just like that having no no,
and knowing what my brother’s been doing in Silicon Valley in in the things on there I’m just like there’s no reason why.

Tarang Patel: 
[26:08] Give me give me an example of what you mean by old school.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[26:11] So I mean we have to fill out multiple applications so for free.
How to fill out the same information like a demographics of you who are you at the school where you graduated from you know what year your step scores were like at least two or three times the same stuff.
Same for the same information and then I’ll send you a pic.
Turn it out and I’ll fill it out take a picture of it or scan it send it back and this is like from 20 to 20 years ago.
2017 there’s a lot of that has happened since then and I think that part of it because.
Yeah the look of industry and it hasn’t been challenged Under the Stairs of the players and the thermostats at Ace him having these big.
Companies in lots of people running it but like nowadays the trend is it’s just doing more with less.

[27:18] And so especially having but exposure to that side that from Silicon Valley. My brother’s been doing it kind of got to start thinking about what things can we do,
to minimize the amount of overhead in the people that work that we’re doing.
So you know the details where were implementing some ideas from the get from the beginning from.
And we have a lot more things in the pipeline that’s going to really really Tara around things up.

Tarang Patel: 
[27:53] Good good end and so you guys are currently providing services in obviously emergency medicine I’m assuming.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[28:05] Yeah so we had we do have I mean hospice medicine and er are so different but right now just because that’s where most of my personal contacts.
But I’m your we do have connections and then doctors from the spot every specialty who want to work with us you have no surgery we have Saab CT surgery we have Dermatology vascular surgery.
Cardiology I are so just about every specialty of people we’re not heavy and in any one of those just yet that’s not where we you know dinner the most Revenue but you know we’re definitely.
Pretty diverse into Lavar our positions that work with us.

Tarang Patel: 
[28:41] Okay and then tell me basically obviously the technology part of it you’re mentioning position in the hospital maybe I’m not getting.
From the other companies.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[28:57] Yeah. That’s a great point I mean on the surface everything else kind of seems the same way we provide Staffing and so is like.
Several days are the company so what’s different right now owned and operated.
I think that makes a big difference nearest you met with a say that the CMO of a pretty well nationally-recognized hospital system and.

[29:18] Explain to them the old is too risky communicate well with see Hospital the program that needs help,
and get a sense of what is it that they’re looking for I think on what these companies do,
yeah they took me to the hospital that was a terrible situation it was understaffed you know they were his presence all over the place on the motor saying to me some medication,
for sure sound like I’m not going back there and the guy the recruiters like yeah we were having some difficulty,
but whatever I like to give you a heads-up about the executive,
locums companies across the board they say in this is date of 121 and tell me he’s like yeah.
The quality of Canada’s that they’re presenting you know so there’s not too much of a vetting process done.
The sales people are looking at it from the seal stamp or look at 3% a doctor over and make some money that’s but I’m not sending it October to making no money because it’s tied to that particular placement,
but we know we look at things differently I think that if we bring that work relations out before able to accept the flick come on and that we place because you don’t just take anybody if we have any process that we are able to provide our,
science and and an awful that were working with just.
Good solid candidates and that prevents them to have to like no get rid of them 2 months later it’s not so process again which is time-consuming is costly for them and so they we’ve had success.

[30:55] And in our discussions with Sutter hospital system that we’re currently connected with the daylight the model of us in a big example and I have a doctor who is Dr but maybe he’s here she’s worked,
will medicine for the past 20 years I’ve probably would want to throw put the doctor in that level 1 Trauma Center.
Dial Stella because I work in the ER in the Stanley of the flow and then and the challenges that that would best represent but.
That’s not necessarily the case of somebody who doesn’t have that kind of experience so you know.
practice of medicine that we understand on a day-to-day basis on what goes on in the ER to the waiting room the patient ECU Staffing you know unless you’re in the trenches you don’t have the understanding.
We we understand and I think I can definitely an edge over the other companies in a lot of Executives like the fact that we’re doing things differently that regard.

Tarang Patel: 
[31:52] Episode that explains the you know how you can present to the hospital system and I’m assuming your retention rate and and and Physicians.
You know taking a second assignment and let you know maybe a recurring assignment at a particular place is better but what about on the position side of me.
The overhead cost at these staffing agencies will take is it better from you guys.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[32:20] Yeah they were very leaving right now we have about 5 people including myself and my co-founder and so you don’t worry about to do a lot more with lot less and so in doing that were able to,
doctors and end process little bit less painful for them,
you know I think that doctors find you want to maintain Poise that I had doing.
I love myself with just how long it took for me to just get a pet you can fill it out and send it back.
And if we’re able to do this do do parts of these things some some of these things but we’re looking to you know saved our doctor’s appointment. I mean I understand we don’t have to.

[33:04] If we’re not working 2nd shift so we don’t want to be doing other stuff in so that like crappy paperwork in the same stuff. Where you done 10 times that you know before so if we can make that process less painful.
And it sent to other doctors more than you know just connecting with people.
Like I said you’re the first possible that was place that was a complete disaster.
And so we don’t just take any hospital system or any time just because of the business either so we do it careful vetting to make sure this is something I’m about to physician side and on the hospital side to make sure that we’re only partnering up with,
the doctors and hospitals stats are going to give each other a great experience.

Tarang Patel: 
[33:46] Sure sure okay last question what do you see as the downsides of someone going independent obviously we’ve talked a lot about the positives and things like that but what are some of the downsides.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[33:59] The downside is potentially that you’ll have to travel and I’m depending on where you are away from home,
that made me to just spend maybe sometime we have some days away from home for example myself I’ll spend by me six to eight days a month. I’m not at home at all I ask Adele tell her I’m going for like 2 or 3 days at a time and then come back on the flip side.
I just have no time off overall.
But that’s what you choose to do with your time so that I don’t really see that but some people do because they don’t really see that picture the other negatives I guess you don’t necessarily get to have that sort of,
long-term relationship with a.
You know what they what they predict your hospital or group of people although the last welcome locums job I’m the one I’m currently I’ve been there for about a year-and-a-half so I’ve definitely felt that.
Long-term or I’m going somewhere much shorter but then she thinks thing is that people think that has no stability in locums you know.
Physicians we really just need to understand that you know this is such a massive shortage of doctors across this country that just such a message shortage that.
The hospitals and an indie set up more than we need them,
still wants you to get that understanding sort of firmly grounded to you and I member was that kind of hit me it kind of makes you feel empowered, I feel like a needle all of a sudden from it’s from The Matrix for your kind of like,
you feel like I can do anything. Like this is this is the boss of my court and I can dictate the terms on my own a kid how I want them.

[35:31] Not be told I could give extra shift every month and you know so I think that,
that’s kind of it’s a bit it’s a bit of a shift from being told what to do to not wear Nike you’re the boss when you want to work how much you want to work so it’s a bit of a shift ended up getting used to because you,
Medical School residency your total to do an employee you’re pretty much told what to do when you do something is on your right as an independent contractor now.
You have to kind of people of a different so they can be available any curve there I think before you should write all the kids I can use it to my advantage.

Tarang Patel: 
[36:08] You mentioned a little bit about the stability Factor do you see any downside me I would imagine that locums if all the sudden less a year you’re doing a local assignment in a place.
Had a hard time attracting a qualified Physicians there to work for them or for their covering less stability.
Maybe someone does come there and then maybe you’ll lose that assignment is that a concern.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[36:35] Yeah I mean you always want to keep your eye out because of the hospital these hassles don’t want local Simon that’s kind of Fate you’re a they want to have fun.
An employee’s or whatever working there because you know it’s just an additional cost expensive for them to bring locums on that they buy their employees so that’s understood but the same time over like 90% of hospitals in the last year.
I think it’s the last last you have you utilize locums so the need is extremely high and so.
The weather usually do is to have your foot in the door at at least two,
hospitals and be on good terms with with the scheduler and and then the directory sites that way you know you let them know,
that doesn’t mean anything comes up if you guys are hiring if you decide if things seem like the kind of winding down here just give us a heads up so that way.
Anticipate that if things are.
Longer versus shorter they’ll give you a heads-up okay looks like somebody’s going to get a few candidates to start working here in a couple months when they start,
I had to stop where you can start planning for looking for other jobs as well so that’s I guess a potential downside if you don’t know how to.
Play Within that system but if you understand how it works you you’ll you’ll you’ll set up you’ll start looking for other jobs in in the area or elsewhere.

Tarang Patel: 
[37:59] Sure and and to be honest I mean there’s really not much to build he left well let you know even if you’re an employee or if you’re in private practice so.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[38:07] A great point and then people may have heard of Akron City Hospital on this ride my training you know this is a fantastic group of doctors at least I work with on that train me with the training effect 30 plus years.
Overnight the contract and I’m not going to get into the specifics of what happened this everywhere but,
so there’s a false sense of security in employee positions doctors are kind of Stay Up Late.
And then the other is a false sense of insecurity and local that people don’t really understand because it don’t know how it’s done.

Tarang Patel: 
[38:47] Right and I think I think that’s the mentality that was you know and 20 years ago there is a perception of you know if you’re low come to just give me moving around and and and if your private practice you have stability.
If anything instability of Locum has probably.
Out by hospitals and by corporate entities and stuff like that so.
I mean at least you’re better off getting paid now and doing the right thing with your money now because there’s no guarantee.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[39:25] Just don’t guarantee the Lights Future exactly I’m with you.

Tarang Patel: 
[39:28] I think that was the decision that you made and I hope.
This episode can Inspire some of our listeners to you know at least look at a locums or just going independent in situations where they were even there.
Current situation so.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[39:47] Exactly what is the oldest say this to end the local sing is that in one of the things I really want to do and it’s it’s part of my mission of this company is to redeem a locums.
Lifestyle to be more mainstream.
I don’t want this to become something that becomes more acceptable people know more about it I think the more you’re knowledgeable about something the more easy easy will be free to make an informed decision about it right,
you don’t need it that you’re very unlikely to dimension on a passport or surgeon in California who after his training shortly after that started the only locals.

[40:21] It would work a week on and then take a whole week off and I take no call nothing and then work another week,
remember he told me that this was so so liberating for him because he had like two weeks of his like a month where he had absolutely no clinical the possibility and was able to do things that he never thought he had time to do,
initial East College Nursery colleagues were looking at.

Tarang Patel: 
[40:47] That’s true because you never expect to have a life if you’re a neurosurgeon and it’s very liberating.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[40:54] Exactly so that’s I just wanted to end on that that I think that is the style that this is out there that’s a lot of doctors were seeking when they left I just not there.

[41:08] Myself and several people that I know who have gone looking full time at found it so I think it’s something I feel she doesn’t consider.

Tarang Patel: 
[41:14] Let me just add something to that because I think that you know one of the issues that a lot of Physicians talk about is in a burnout and and things like that and I think that.
This type of this type of Freedom that you’re able to get from a locums or an independent type of career would probably mitigate a lot of that because you have more flexibility.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[41:37] That’s a huge point it’s wrong because like.
Ask you Joy going to work I know why when I was working my full-time and locums I was kind of getting,
total burnt out myself it was a bird and you know the shift work and all that stuff but now that I work less I actually look forward to going to the ER cuz I never have I felt that excited to go to work.
So now I can have a very sort of positive relationship in the end,
sort of attitude towards going to work which I think when I was stuck sort of an employee model and I was just working a ton and it kind of Beast into the other Nadia.

Tarang Patel: 
[42:15] And you probably just feel valued more at this point because it mean you you command a higher value at this point so internally I think that that encourages you a little bit as well.

[42:25] I want people to think about all these other options that you know we just don’t think about when we come out of medical school residency and and there is a way that we can kind of.
Customized.

[42:41] The wife that we wanted medicine and my gosh if a neurosurgeon can do it then it’s probably accessible for those the rest of us as well testing in the course you you’re from the Bay Area so it’s kind of ingrained in your car.
In the people from there so tell me a little bit about what you’re doing.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[43:01] So like I’ll be honest I didn’t know what it was until about maybe.
Yoga like I had no idea that I had no.
Clue whatsoever what any of that was but then again like I mentioned having.
Made by several trips back to the Bay Area to visit my family my parents out there and my brother who lives there and is involved a lot of startups and then does just that kind of got me privy to this whole idea of investing in,
Angel Investing in a 10 companies in Tech startups and all that stuff that I had no exposure to before and so,
you know she like I mentioned that he started his own seat fun with several investors and he’s meeting up with like startup Founders all the time like you a couple several times a week he’ll decide whether,
it’s a good investment or not it’s basically in a nutshell you’re putting in a amount of cash could be anywhere from $1,000 to $7,000 into an early stage company,
percentage of equity in into the company and the goal is like you should think of that money is pretty much gone that you’re using that you need on a.
Took to pay your bills or anything like that it’s usually that is somewhat if you lose it you’re not going to be.
Stripes that sucks my dad is if you lose it you’re not going to worry about it but the goal is the idea is to invest in his company and hope for a.
Delphi 5 10 20 x return and then the next 5-10 years which is when the company will be able to you know either Exit or get bought out or do IPL so you know I’ve been doing that for about the past year now.

[44:39] In conjunction with our brother who started his company,
let’s talk until it’s a lot of doctor friends of mine and it seems a lot of doctors are interested in this and so I can finish and everything kind of,
you’re kidding right in terms of the language and and the opportunities that represent specifically for Physicians and so.
Yeah we we thought that was a good idea and so he’s developing that idea curly as we speak actually kind of allow doctors and insight into Silicon Valley and to be able to invest in companies that maybe Tuesday didn’t have access to,
because truthfully I would have no access to these companies if I didn’t have my brother doing this resource and I want to be able to share that with other people who think they’re going to necessarily,
inside a lottery ticket that has winning numbers on it but it could be.
And it’s making investment in people and then teams that have already shown some level of success and inner continue to kind of show growth so the other there’s ways to do that as well to make sure that you maximize your,
opportunity that you’re an anaconda that you’re investing in.

Tarang Patel: 
[45:49] No I think it’s it’s a it’s a important thing that Physicians get educated about all the variety of investment options and and for the average physician I would say that this would be.
You know after you have you know you can best in your retirement after you’ve.
Created a decent taxable account and are comfortable paying your obligations your student loans and mortgages your kids college accounts again.
It should be in in conjunction with that and like you said you gave you have to be prepared to lose all of it but if it does hit.
It can be massive but you shouldn’t you you should use a very small percentage of your overall net worth in in in this type of investment.
Two positions but but the caveat is that I don’t think a lot of Physicians truly understand.
How long some of these companies investing in medical space because.

[46:46] There’s all kinds of regulations that startups in Tech don’t have to face so it just may be a longer Runway. Before you actually gain anything.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[46:56] Definitely definitely.

Tarang Patel: 
[46:57] Stop the show.

[47:07] If we can educate Physicians on on their value and their options then then I think we’ve done a good thing and I hope that more Physicians.
Can I follow your lead in in in doing this.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[47:20] Thank You song it’s my pleasure I enjoy this I I have several this conversation today with doctor’s so this is,
the lifestyle you have two choices even if you want to work for us or not.
Great if you don’t want to that I’m fine with that too but as long as I’m a resource for us doctors in and out and if anybody wants to talk to me about anything you can post my email website whatever I’m happy I’m happy to talk to people.

Tarang Patel: 
[47:47] Tell our listeners a year your website and where they can come to.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[47:53] Great my email is Allie at locums united.com that’s a l i at locums United. One word. Com and the website is local news united.com.

Tarang Patel: 
[48:06] Okay great well we look forward to seeing how your your company and everything goes for you and we will talk again in the future.

Ali Chaudhary: 
[48:16] Great thanks a lot man thanks having appreciate.

Intro Outro: 
[48:18] I want to thank dr. Chaudhry for being my guest on this episode of Doctor Money Matters I hope he inspired you to take control of your own career and learn about learn more about your own Financial value as a physician.

[48:30] Doctors need to help make the Healthcare System more efficient this is one way to bring down overall health care costs while keeping those of us who provide the care paid appropriately.

[48:42] Ollie’s company can be found at Logan’s united.com there’s a link on the show notes.

[48:47] Please continue to share this podcast with your friends and colleagues on Facebook Twitter and you can follow me on Twitter at Dr Money Matters.

[48:57] And I encourage you to join our Facebook group if you do a search on Facebook for Doctor Money Matters it’s a group or we discuss different Financial topics including those that we address on this show.

[49:08] And hopefully you’ll gain some value out of it with the connecting with other listeners and Physicians who are interested in these Financial Topix.

[49:18] Another episode of Doctor Money Matters will be coming out soon but I want to thank you again.

Main Intro