Doctor Money Matters

Doctor Money Matters Ep 17: 
[0:00] Hello and welcome to the doctor Money Matters podcast the show where we discuss important Financial topics that would never covered in med school I’m your host dr. tarang Patel.

Tarang Patel — Intro Outro: 
[0:16] I want to wish everyone a Happy New Year sorry for the long Gap in episodes but I’ve been trying to promote the show a little bit more on various social media Outlets so.

[0:28] Please share the podcast with your friends colleagues and students it’s pretty easy to do particularly if you listen to it on the Apple podcast app where if you press the button with three little dots near the middle of the screen you can share it via.

[0:43] Text message Facebook WhatsApp Twitter however you want to share it.

[0:49] I recorded a bunch of podcast that I’ve been that haven’t been released yet so I’ll be releasing.
Those more frequently and will let you know via the Facebook group or Twitter or.
Any of my other social media Outlets when the episodes are out and I have some great guests scheduled to record soon including.

[1:09] Physician on fire and also an updated 2018 tax episode with Anjali jariwala who’s on our podcast previously discussing taxes in general.

[1:21] A couple things I want to mention before I start the interview with dr. Valerie Jones I wanted to address Bitcoin fever.

[1:30] Cryptocurrency is super hot right now and congrats to those who’ve made money or lots of money on its recent massive appreciation.
In my opinion I think the blockchain is revolutionary and will change the way we conduct business.

[1:48] No one coin is particularly more impressive than others and no one is established to mainstream a Bitcoin have been around the longest and has a little bit more recognition.

[2:00] There is no limit on what the number of coins are different types of cryptocurrencies that can be introduced and therefore no one knows if any of the current coins will be the ones that’ll be.

[2:12] I used as a mainstream type of business there may be room for many of these coins to.

[2:18] To work in in their own niches but I’m not sure that all of them will continue to hold the value that they currently have.

[2:25] I remember Mania Mania can be a good thing in terms of making a lot of money ask me ask Mark Cuban who sold broadcast.com in 1999 to Yahoo near the peak of the.
Dot-com bubble obviously you can also lose a lot of money so so just just be careful.

[2:44] In regards to the new tax changes most Physicians should see.

[2:52] Some increase in take-home pay although if you’re on the the coasts or an estate with the relatively High property tax burden you may.

[3:02] You may break even to in some small percentage may even pay a little bit more but for the most of you I would say continue to.

[3:12] Save more and use the tax savings to pay down any additional debt or a no increase your investment allocation.

[3:22] On a side note I was recently in a bit of a Twitter battle with an idiot Economist who Advocates slashing physician salaries.
As a way to reduce healthcare costs he wanted to bring in a significant number of foreign doctors and not that there’s anything wrong with foreign doctors but he wanted to bring in Doctors Without.

[3:45] Without requiring them to do any additional residency training as a way to bring down costs in my opinion this is short-sighted.
As positions salaries are only a small percentage of healthcare costs maybe about 8% and by increasing the number of doctors even by.
Doubling them you’re not going to do reduce the total cost of salaries on Healthcare you’ll just increase the number of people getting.

[4:10] The salaries.

[4:13] But regardless this type of idiot is a influential in policymaking and this is the kind of pressure that we’re going to continue to face in regards to Bringing Down health care costs.

[4:27] Savings and increasing your the speed at which you Achieve Financial Independence is going to be even more Paramount.

[4:34] So this brings me to Our Guest today dr. Valerie Jones in OBGYN physician who retired from medicine at the young age of 37.

[4:44] I’m not advocating retiring to any of you even if you Achieve Financial Independence but.

[4:49] With continued pressures that we face in healthcare and continued.

[4:56] Calls from idiots like this economist we’re going to have pressure and achieving Financial Independence sooner rather than later.

[5:04] Will make your life easier on with the show.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[5:11] Okay welcome to another episode of the doctor Money Matters podcast I guess today is.
Doctor Valerie Jones who writes on her own website OB doctor mom.com a lot of people have been talking about her article on Kevin MD where she wrote about retiring from her OB-GYN practice at the young age of 37.

[5:31] Doctor Jones welcome to the podcast.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[5:34] Thank you thanks for having me on my site is to do it today.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[5:37] Alright I said just tell me a little bit about your background and where you went to med school and residency why you went into OBGYN.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[5:45] Sure grew up actually in the South so and Louisiana,
for a good portion of my childhood but then moved to Virginia at the end of high school and so then go to the east coast girl for a while now went to medical school in Virginia at Eastern Virginia medical school and then residency,
I did at Johns Hopkins for OBGYN that was one of those people who always knew that I was going to be a physician.
Started out from as early as I can remember 5 years old saying I want to be an OB I want to deliver babies I got for some reason I just knew and I don’t know why I don’t I don’t have,
Terrence that are Physicians is not really something that I was around a whole lot I mean my father was an officer in the military he was in a medical type of career but he’s not a physician but it was just something that was always there,
and so he didn’t even all throughout high school and college that was always my plan and you would have wanted to do and I kind of set it at that to go to medical school and then.
OBGYN what’s the plan to and so you know when you go through,
third year of medical school rotations and everything else he is a few other things like radiology and neurology and I’m really stuck with me as much as OBGYN dead and so is kind of my past the whole way through and I got to tell you I definitely never had gone into this expecting to retire at 37 that was never my,
my plan was not what I had wanted to do and I want to make that very clear that you know if you want to retire early and you don’t,
going to Medicine looking to do that medicine realize that but I think maybe.
Other people don’t you know it’s just not a good way to do it if that’s your goal but life happens and that’s where I am now and it’s nice how it all worked out in the end.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[7:17] Yeah it’s funny you mention that school going through those rotations I kind of similar experience except that OBGYN was the first one I crossed off the list when I.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[7:24] That is for a lot of people it’s like it’s either love it or hate it and I get it there’s a lot of good things behind it but there’s a lot of tough things as well too so.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[7:34] Absolutely absolutely you retired at a very young age so why.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[7:45] Yeah so it was a couple of reasons.
The last several years I become a little bit more disillusioned with how Healthcare in general has been going I wrote about 11 the article that you mentioned on Kevin MD about how I’ve become pretty frustrated with how Physicians are kind of last on the list of,
actually dictating how Healthcare goes and we want to be advocates for patients in a lot of times we’re not able to do that and so,
getting pretty frustrated also with OBGYN it’s not an easy,
specialty have late hours and lot of call a lot of staying up all hours of the night now practice is a.
The concern of mine I never was sued you know it luckily but there was always something that was in the back of my mind in the back of everyone’s mind not just OBGYN but,
I think even more so in our field when things go poorly Haitian they would sometimes want to have an answer but they want to feel Vindicator have something.
But this really to blame but if you have a bad outcome for a baby that’s a tough,
tough thing to go through and so I think we see lawsuits more in our field even when all standards of medicine were carried through there was no.
There was really no language and sometimes the lawsuit will happen anyway and so then for Physicians to go through that is very stressful and I think everyone in OBGYN is really feeling that stressed there has been a whole lot done to kind of help us.
Out in that room so that was a part of it and then also you have 3 kids certainly was missing a lot with them but being on a very busy schedule,
and so and then I also had a health scare and that was actually what was the kind of Tipping Point for me.

[9:16] And I look back at it now is it being one of the best things that ever happened to me because you’re working and you’re working and you see your family when you can and you’re just going you don’t actually say stop,
let me see this is what I want to be doing with my life is this,
really am I in a good spot right now I might am I doing the things I want to is it it’s a silly me I so when I had this house scare it really stopped me in my tracks and I took a step back and I said.
What am I doing and why am I doing this and I think what happened was that my husband I actually became financially independent or we’re realizing that.

[9:56] We could actually both retire at this point if you wanted to and that’ll happen at the same time that I had the health scare and so it was kind of like a no-brainer at that point I said well.
I don’t need to be working now so why am I doing this and it’s at the right thing right now for myself or my family of the way the healthcare environment is so I really want to be doing this and so I needed to step away and inside retired and I don’t know that I’ll ever go back,
but honestly I’ll Never Say Never because,
foolish to think it’s foolish to say you’ll never do something because who knows I’m 37 I don’t think so though I don’t.
Been enjoying myself quite a bit since November when I retired and so that’s not the plan as of now.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[10:35] Okay you were seven years those residency right when you retired.

[10:40] Okay so how did you go about I mean just being a financial podcast how did you go about becoming.
Financially independent so quickly I mean that most most people from Medical School have loans that they’re paying off for it for such a long time. What what kind of steps did you take to increase.
The speed at which you were able to become financially independent.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[11:01] Yeah you’re absolutely right I mean the amount of debt that medical students in Kearney I was just enormous and so it was a little bit different for everybody has their own story for me which seem to work for me,
was a couple of things one you know I didn’t have somebody pay my way through medical school so of course I had loans like everyone else.
But my medical school loans were probably less than average I would say just being completely transparent I think my medical school loans were about a hundred and thirty thousand and so that was you know because I didn’t take out for extras.

[11:32] People will because someone they have to but also a lot of time so I can see my friends taking out a lot of extra loans for,
vacation living expenses during medical school and I get it you know you want to have fun too but I was really really Frugal during medical school I mean. Do it didn’t go out a whole lot,
you know I just really kept the very minimum of what I could do a very small apartment and I got married the first year medical school and so my husband at the time did have a job he was just out of college though and so it wasn’t a high-paying job by any means but at least that way we didn’t have to take out.

[12:05] Loans for living expenses I certainly we couldn’t afford to pay for a tuition and so that was one thing that helped,
is the start out with a relatively low balance compared to what,
do a physician income senior with they’re coming out with and just having to do just tuition alone and we also were able to lock in I think it was 2.7 for the interest rate.
Lucky or not since that it happened at that time frame where I had to go to a good rate so that was something else I was going in my favor so that was the first that was keeping my medical school loans as it slow as I possibly could and locking a good rate.

[12:40] And then after that,
yeah right after Medical School residency lay loans are in forbearance initially but then as soon as I was able to start paying off those loans I would do it at the maximum that we could and not just the minimum that they would say oh this is what you have to do and so that was a big factor as well.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[12:59] Right I think that’s a key point because like you said you had to do a limb come during residency in a lot of people especially when they’re single or you know are mostly just.

[13:08] Not able to do much during residency except for the bare minimum so that’s definitely an advantage on your part that you were able to do that and definitely contributes to you know getting financially independent much quicker so.

[13:21] That’s very good.

[13:22] So let me ask you this now you know you’ve talked about retiring and you wrote this so you know the article what kind of feedback have you gotten from other Physicians have you gotten from your car.
When you were you know announcing you the are when you told him that you’re going to retire.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[13:38] Truck I think honestly I was the first reaction you know I think that.

[13:45] I think there’s some people were really happy for me I think they were my friends and they know kind of where I was coming from and some of the actually the older Physicians were the ones who were shocked I got a whole lot of different reactions some people’s are like you’re crazy why are you doing this you’re not going to have enough money to live off of,
for however many class years until your 90 years old and you have 3 kids who’s going to pay for all of their.
But I think you know we did a lot of stuff’s besides what I initially talked about that kind of kept us in a good spot and so but I heard the whole gamut and I’ve heard some people even now. There are some people will say some pretty hateful things but.
I did I do not to just brush him off his fight over is entitled to their own opinion and I did listen to them but I don’t really know internalize it too much but it’s some people have brought up the question of is it all that schooling and you know it.
To just not work anymore after 7 years is that is that a circle you know and so I kind of view.
Maybe that matter bakeries with me but you know I view it as I paid for my education granted and you get a residency salary when you’re working in residency but.
We’re pretty much underpaid as you know anybody’s ever done residents he knows you’re getting minimum wage to do,
a lot could not function without Residence Inn so I think really the girls getting a pretty good deal with that so I don’t,
actually feel bad about that and so do I have to live my life the way someone else dictates that I do know I don’t think I do.

[15:18] And I put in all that time will that’s my time maybe.
How much was that wasted I have no regrets for doing medical school and residency in putting in all those years in at that time it’s really what I wanted to do at that time is what I want and how I want to serve.

[15:31] GNC and it just life happens sometimes and it changes and so I think the whole.

[15:36] Toy. I wanted to make about this is it’s great to be in a position where if your life does changing you want to take those different steps then at least the finances can be an order so that you can do that and not feel trapped,
in a situation where you don’t want to be your a job that’s not working for you or you know that malpractice concerns have gotten to be too stressful for whatever reason and so I think that was more of what I try to focus on and not worry too much about the negatives.
Comments that people making.
You know I don’t take it personally but I’m just trying to maybe like you said get this information out there to help maybe some other presidents who are just,
starting an in women too and I appreciate you having me on because there’s just not a lot of women Physicians that are out there talking about this they’re starting to be and I think women are and interests in finances we want to take control of our finances we can it’s just it hasn’t.
In the past been a focus I think we’re getting there now and so it’s another thing to that has,
comments about you just a state are you a housewife now they mean if anybody can do that right so I will know it’s not exactly that it would be if I said we’re totally living off my husband salary now and I decided to become a stay-at-home mom.
Usher Yeah but that’s not exactly how it went we’re at the point now where either one of us or both of us could retire my husband does still,
could use work right now I don’t know for how much longer but because he enjoys it and so if he enjoys it and why you should he have to stop that doesn’t take anything away from.
Kind of calling it retirement because we’re at a point where we both could or we didn’t need to work to support our children and in our future but there’s absolutely I think nothing wrong if he wants to continue to work fine if he can do it on his terms and leave us he ever wanted to.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[17:15] Right I think that’s exactly what you described.

[17:19] The goal for this podcast and and a lot of other resources that are starting to come available.

[17:25] Is for Physicians to reach independent it doesn’t mean you have to retire early or any other field for that matter but just securing that independent allows you choices that.

[17:35] Previously you know there were no it wasn’t a choice you had to work now you have the choice and which direction you choose to go with it is ultimately up to you and you don’t have to answer to anyone but yourself.
I read some of the comments that were on your website and I’m sure on the Kevin MD sidestepping but that even a ton more unfortunately people do tend to attack positions little bit I think.
Today I was just reading an article on doximity where I came over who wrote it but efficient talked about.

[18:04] All these other positions have been recently talking about physician burnout and stuff like that and basically said that you know instead of just talking about it fix it do something stop.
Came off that and I think that’s you know that that that’s really unhelpful doesn’t really it’s in contributes more to the toxic environment that that is out there.
Then helping anything just telling us to stop whining.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[18:27] Yes I agree with you 100% that’s not destructive whatsoever.
And I think by talking about it we are contributing to you know hopefully making some change and that’s that’s why I’m talking about is not just to complain or whatever you know socially about the retirement piece,
that but you know it is hopefully it will be helping other people the one thing that I think helped us the most 100% from the financial aspect,
was living off of one salary that’s one thing I didn’t mention earlier and that was huge for us and I think most Physicians that I know it must have a spouse that works now I know that’s not the case for all positions but it actually I think is quite common now to be a dual physician,
family or to have.
Who is the wife in the husband or the spouse working and in these cases and so I think it’s not unreasonable then people consider that option I know a lot of people do it after talking with friends and other colleagues most people don’t live off of 1 salary and it is,
that’s the way we really did it if you want to know what I think is the real reason,
I so we look off my salary and saved even off of mine to in anything that my husband made immediately went to debt repayment investing in Saving none of it we didn’t even look at it as a salary never even looked at it and so that was really the biggest part I think.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[19:44] Yeah yeah that’s right I think that’s really it’s it’s true and particularly a lot of positions come out of.
Training and yeah we have all worked very hard and we almost feel like we’re entitled to.

[19:56] You know spend a little bit and I I can’t argue with that point but it doesn’t but you just have to realize that if you do that.

[20:02] That you even are you just going to be delaying Independence in and that’s a choice that positions ate themselves but.

[20:08] A lot of times it just kind of doing it out of your not really thinking and I feel like now getting that knowledge out there look at that you were doing and several other people out there are doing at least let them think about it because before I was just like well you.
You know now attending it’s time to finally live after all these years of sacrificing so.

[20:26] I think that’s really good advice living off of one income is is great and you know I mean tremendous three that you were able to have that inside at an early age so that’s.
That’s great nobody asked you when did you actually first think about it retiring and then when did you actually retire what was it take me through the time span that you tell me the time span the mechanics of how you calculated these numbers things like that.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[20:48] Well that’s I think a big part of a good thing that you mentioned actually because the numbers we’d always been keeping track of and that’s something I think most people should do is just know what your.
Your spending is your savings are assets in her in to try but we have a huge spreadsheet,
they were constantly updating we’ll get together about every 6 months or so and really see okay where are we with how are doing financially and where’s our money going what’s coming in what accounts do we have in so that really helped keep us on track for just knowing where everything was going and so.

[21:17] I wasn’t really planning on retiring I was like I had said getting a little bit more dissolution of the last couple of years but had it plan on retiring until the healthcare happen and that was just a year ago.
So it pretty quickly after that I’d say about a month after it happened I am doing some thinking and.
And I just realized I’m just going to go ahead and do this but then of course I gave advance notice and and so I was a salaried employee position and so.
I gave my 90 days notice I actually offered I could stay on a little bit longer doing things here and there but I definitely wasn’t going to be full-time or even.
You’ll have time but basically it was pretty much done after about 3 or 4 months from when I gave my notice trying to give it to my colleagues little bit of time to kind of prepare.
But yeah it would happen pretty quickly I would say but by that time we already know in the numbers you know we had already been keeping track and so we knew that.
Thanks actually look pretty good and so I said well we can do this and so you went ahead and decided to do that one thing that I think is going to be the biggest,
problem though for somebody retiring early it especially at my age and if my husband does the next couple of years we’ve got a lot of years of paying for health insurance,
and so that’s a huge.
Part of it but we we added that into our spreadsheet you know how much is a you don’t know we really don’t know what health insurance is going to cost but you make your best bet you aim for probably will higher than it would cost and you put me up.
Softer than some calculations which I think of everything we thought of what I know we have to.

[22:40] Tell the kids with her insurance when their teenagers will it be a sports programs for the next however many years every last little detail was put into this huge spreadsheet to try to really figure out,
what are expenses will be in multiply that by how many years were going to need that that money and really figure it out that way.
And so just knowing the numbers really helps and to keep track of things really important I think.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[23:02] Okay I’m not going to ask you specific numbers but if you can give me an idea in terms of your annual expense. The dollar amount but let there’s a rule of thumb that says.
You should have 20 times your annual spending stuff like that is there a number that you guys got to in terms of a multiple of your annual spending and you already said you were you know you spend on one person’s income but just kind of how did you.

[23:23] Get to that number.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[23:25] Brian probably.

[23:27] 30 times and I’m spending we do live pretty frugally I would say both of us are kind of have the same mindset as good vacations every year but.
Wit Rob expanders I guess either one of us we actually we don’t do private school for our children which is another big one I think.
Oh at rages and so we had to have that benefit as well as having Public School far we’re all 3 kids we live in an area where the public schools are,
some of the best in the country and so we’re taking advantage of that,
and so that’s a part of it as well and so it’s all about choices like you said some people say Macy’s worth it to them to pay for private school board maybe they want to have that big house right out of residency and so it’s just everybody has their own decision about what’s more important to them for us we were fine with public school we are both.
Products of public school we are happy with it you know an in so those are our decisions and that’s one of things where you had mentioned before people wants to get out of residency they feel like they just need to get out there and then spend that attending salary and I get it yeah I was there too.

[24:26] Tired you’ve been delaying this forever you want to spend some money and so you know it did a little bit but then we almost made a mistake of.
Becoming house poor as I would call it a.
Did you see that waiting to tell me I know you’re finally going to jump to a salary that’s like 5 times what it was a year ago and you wanted to get that big house because they’ll give it to you they’ll give you a loan for it and you can get the mortgage for it but we decided not to do that in and get what we need it was just a nice house but not like the.
You know that mcmansion that we probably could have we can do it we said you know we’re just we don’t need that and we didn’t feel the need to keep up with anyone else and you know prove anything and so I think that helps a little bit too.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[25:03] And some of it is you know that you’re you’re able to do it successfully I think a lot of Physicians tend to hang out with other Physicians and there seems to be a little bit of you know.
Eraser you know it’s hard to keep that.
You said an ellipse like you were you know you sound like you’re able to do it very well but I think hanging out with other Physicians tends to be detrimental to your financial.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[25:26] Yes I think so.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[25:36] You know so you said you don’t want to go back to work is it as it OB.
Do you see a time where you going to be doing something in terms of doing this blog do you see yourself kind of going in that realm creating some sort of programs for other Physicians things like that.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[25:52] Yeah it’s a great question I think I realized after being out for a little bit now is it’s probably like a lot of positions that are Taipei is.
Kind of hard not to do something you know and so sure I have three kids and I spend a lot of time with them and so that’s my biggest Focus right now however you’re right I’m started blogging which I never thought I would do I had no interest in that whatsoever but,
hey here it is and so that’s the beauty of being retired is that I have this opportunity now to explore,
other interests and so yes I’m going to explore that for now I’m going to do some riding I’m doing some little bit of work with doximity now and contributing articles for them and so.
All these opportunities I started to present themselves and and I’m able it’s being a position I would say okay I’ll try it and you know and see where it goes and so I think I will be doing something I don’t know.

[26:39] But not necessarily I will be doing it trying to get a salary out of I’ll be doing it if it’s something I’m passionate about her,
or something that you know that I had that I want to pursue in this so that is why I want to be a physician Advocate that is something that I’m passionate about and I’m kind of happy that,
I’m in this position now to be able to do that especially for my OBGYN colleagues I’m trying to get the word out it’s just it’s just not sustainable how it is and there’s going to be a huge physician shortage coming so people are retiring early from OBGYN for when there’s just going to be a mass shortage of Ob-Gyn says coming and so,
I still have enough Iron Maiden yet leaving recently that I want to keep advocating for my colleagues and so I’m going to keep doing that and so hopefully the blog will be a forum for that.
When writing other articles and so kind of steak entrenched with the medical community but maybe not prefer C clinically this point.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[27:31] Right yeah I just thought of this while we were talking but it annoys some of the other OBGYN that take out a popular thing for OBGYNs was to you no cut the OB part of the practice and DO gynecology only it was that something you thought about in terms of slowing down or where you pretty much like I’m just you know.

[27:48] This is it I’m done.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[27:49] I was pretty much like this is it I’m done,
but know that is absolutely true that’s a very common for OBGYNs to cut the OB part because that’s the tough part.
Doing the deliveries up all night malpractices the concern,
type of medicine where they’re having OBGYNs in the hospital for 24 hour shift so the whole the whole field is changing so it’s going to be interesting to see how we’re going to able to handle that was a shortage of physicians in the next 5-10 years.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[28:27] One other question I had for you are you you were talking about the numbers and you and your husband were in a pretty intelligent about the way you guys.
Matters just throughout the course of your local school residency things I got did you use a financial advisor or you were you guys doing this on your own.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[28:42] I would say.
How much on our own yeah my husband does have a little bit background in finance and so he was able to help guide some of this most of it and least with getting us on the right track but no we do not have a.
Financial advisor currently I just look at the fees and everything else now and like I’m learning so much about finances now that I’m actually retired and so I’ve actually learned quite a bit about the financial advisors and right now I don’t see the.

[29:08] I thought I would ever use a financial advisor for me personally but I think maybe for people who are in residency and just getting started maybe somebody to help them kind of guide them but still.
Looking out and make sure that they’re learning enough to really know what’s going on with their money and not just going to blindly but a financial advisor lead them it’s kind of how I do it now.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[29:27] Okay well good the last thing I was going to talk to you what it what is your advice to other Physicians who are who are feeling some of the effects of burnout.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[29:37] Well I feel like you know I think it’s going to get better I really do.

[29:42] I think that it’s starting to become public now and you are paying attention and that this is a real problem positions are people you know they’re there real people who are working hard most decisions have.

[29:53] The best intentions at heart I think I think you hear the sensation I stories about these.
These doctors that are doing terrible things but they are so few and far between I mean I think most of us know every we are colleagues and people we work with it’s just not the case for almost 98% of all Physicians you ever out there to do good for patients,
we care about our patients but we’re human beings and so I think that’s the biggest part of it and so forth for people who are you know burning out and one I would say.

[30:21] And I don’t really like to turn burn out because it makes it sound like there’s a problem with the position and and their ability to react to how things are going I actually think it’s more of a problem with the system and so I think that you know that.

[30:35] They should realize that it’s not a problem with them it’s a problem with the system and their you know they should try to get help if they’re having a lot of difficulty and try to figure out if it’s not working for you try to figure out a way to change things maybe cut back on hours or.
Unified something that’s more that you get more satisfaction out of your career and to get your finances in order.
You need to make a change to do it so you can do it comfortably not have to worry or feel trap.

Tarang Patel, Do: 
[31:00] Right absolutely.
But I think it’s great and I’m glad you were able to come on this this show and discuss your story and I hope that our listeners will get you know get some good information out of it I’m sure they will and I really like her description of burnout talking about it’s not.
You’re not the problem it’s the system I think that’s so true but as as Physicians most of us you know we feel that like you said that type A personality and you know it’s a go go go type of thing and you ultimately feel like.

[31:27] It’s your fault will your you’re absolutely right that this system is unsustainable in it and it will it will wear down on anyone if you’re allowed to so I really appreciate you you could have.
Describing it in that way I want to thank you for coming on the show and I want to encourage our listeners to check out your blog at OB doctor mom.com.
And I know you talked about topics related to Medicine motherhood the some of the financial aspects.
I encourage them to check that out and and thank you very much for coming on the show.

Valerie Jones, Md: 
[31:57] Got thank you so much for having me it was nice talking with you.

Tarang Patel — Intro Outro: 
[32:03] Thank you dr. Jones for appearing on the podcast it’s been a long while since we recorded this episode and I appreciate her patience with me.
For the long time gap before it was released.

[32:15] I hope she continues to encourage you guys to maintain a high savings rate to allow Financial Freedom sooner.

[32:23] Please consider joining our Facebook group doctor Money Matters where we discussed many of these Financial topics and please continue to subscribe to the podcast and to leave positive reviews for the show or any other podcasts to listen to.
The more 5 Star reviews you get the better the show ranks on the Apple podcast algorithm and the more it can be accessible to other people who would would find it useful so thank you for those of you who left the five star reviews.
And please if you haven’t left to review I encourage you to do so for this podcast and for other podcasts to listen to.

[32:59] And also remember to check out dr. Jones website OB doctor mom.com and listen for our next episode coming out soon.

Doctor Money Matters Ep 17: 
[33:21] For those of you still listening what do you think of the change of music.

[33:25] Hit me up on Twitter at Dr Money Matters or on Facebook and tell me if you think this is a better type of music or you want to hear some other type of intro and outro music thanks.