Doctor Money Matters

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Main Intro

Episode 14 Intro Outro:

[0:44] Okay welcome to another episode of the doctor Money Matters podcast Today show I speak to Bobby Collins of Medicus the Medicus firm.

[0:52] Which is a physician recruitment firm and we talked about the physician job market the value that a.

[1:00] Physician recruiter brings to the job hunt process.

[1:06] I don’t think you absolutely have to have a recruiter and many jobs are not advertised on websites or through.

[1:14] Job posts many of the best jobs don’t only recruit by word of mouth so definitely use your connections to look for a job but if you are looking in an area of the country that you’re not familiar with.

[1:29] A physician recruiter may be beneficial in the wave at a.

[1:33] A real estate agent would be beneficial when you’re purchasing a house or a financial planner would be in regards to your overall Financial picture.

[1:43] How you can get there without their help it sometimes their expertise may help you ask some questions that you wouldn’t have thought of so.

[1:52] Listen to this episode and listen to what Bobby talks about what some of the value that physician recruiters bring to your job search.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[2:02] Welcome to another episode of Doctor Money Matters podcast my guest today is Bob Collins and managing partner at the Medicus firm in National physician recruitment firm.

Bob sounded Medicus Partners in 2001 and has been a guest speaker many US medical schools and residencies Bob welcome to the show.

Bobby Collins:

[2:22] Thank you good to be on.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[2:23] Tell our listeners about your background and how you got into this field.

Bobby Collins:

[2:27] Well I got into the field by dumb luck good friend of mine.

I went to work for a company and recruited me to come work to him when I started I didn’t even know there was such a thing as physician recruiters and.

[2:41] Play 25 26 years later on 26 years later I’m still doing it so I was very fortunate to find something I really enjoyed at a relatively young age.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[2:51] The main question I think it a lot of people looking for jobs fishy coming out of residency why should a physician or other health-care professional use use a recruiter over just you know searching the job boards or or their own contacts.

Bobby Collins:

[3:05] Well they’re actually all really good sources to be fair I think it really depends,

what their priorities are in the majority of people find jobs in through their own contacts and through people they trained with or they stay where they train because that’s a.

A predictable and somewhat safe environment.

Where recruiters really at Value is for those that are are more open to the type of job open to the location and they’re more focused on.

Here’s what’s important to me and you know what I need assistance in finding those opportunities that me there literally are.

Thousands of jobs available depending on your specialty of course so how do I really sit through those and how do I find one that matches what I’m looking for both professionally and personally.

When we when we speak to doctors one of the standard questions we’re going to ask them is tell me what’s important to you as you consider.

Your next opportunity.

Prioritize for us how important to location you live is how important is to practice style how important is your financial renumeration how important is the quality of life for the opportunity provides.

So we’re really looking for is a better understanding of your not what they necessarily but what are they really need based on that feedback of how they prioritized,

those four distinct variables,

in each of the opportunity to the opportunities that many recruitment firms ours included we don’t represent an opportunity that we have not physically been to visited method.

[4:45] Decision-makers met the other positions to or the community so hopefully we’re going to be able to help condense.

Their search process by being able to share information that otherwise they wouldn’t be able to have access to Beyond as what they see on the internet.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[5:00] SS Edition in a works with your firm in in order to procure a job do you then what’s the process in terms of you know once they start looking and then even after they say I know is there a follow-up things like that.

Bobby Collins:

[5:14] Yeah the processes you’re there they are not locked into anybody in most Physicians will will typically use.

All the resources you mention they’re going to use their own contacts they’re going to look at a job boards are going to talk to recruiting firms to really make sure they are uncovering all the opportunities that might be of interest to them,

if they work with recruitment Forum there’s really there’s no obligation to them,

I hopefully that the obligation we ask is just transparency and honesty about the process and what’s important and where they stand but there’s no financial obligation to them it’s that will always be born.

An owned by the hospital or group or academic institution that is recruiting they are responsible for that fee so there’s no there’s no cost if you will to a physician.

As far as follow-up if they if they take a job we represent and assisted them.

Then we typically within every 3 months 6 months we’re trying to check in and see how the adjustment is going anything we can do to help but by and large were really trying to shift that relationship.

To the employer to the candidate.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[6:25] And so from the other side you mentioned the hospital why would a hospital use a recruiting firm for a practice.

Bobby Collins:

[6:34] Supply and demand me there is.

Depending on the specialty the supply and demand equation is literally upside down so it again depending on the specialty the cost to a hospital of not having a specific position.

Canby.

Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars if those referrals are leaving the community so they have a vested financial interest in being able to compress the time frame of.

Recruiting a physician that fits their profile that wants to be in their community.

Been been using recruitment firm in and to be fair you know we.

We work in towns that are critical access hospitals in which its they’ve limited resource and very difficult to find Qualified Physicians,

and we also working major medical centers in major Urban centers like Austin Texas that their challenges to finding somebody you’re different,

finding can’t see this as easy for them to find in candidates that want to be here for the right reasons is typically a bit more challenging so we help,

depending on the client’s needs and what their focus is we help navigate through all of those variables and hopefully being able to compress the time frame and find the right candidate for them,

in the most expeditious timeframe possible.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[7:54] Now if I’m a physician who is looking to use a recruiting from what are some of the things that I should look for in order to you know discern between the the firms that are out there.

Bobby Collins:

[8:06] Good question so there are two types of recruitment firms buying large in the position recruiting industry there is contingency.

Which contingency firms are only paid if you take a job that they represent in most cases that contingency firm does not.

Physically go to the community they are representing typically a much higher volume of searches and they’re actually they had a lot of value if you are very very geographically specific.

So if you say I am for family reasons I’ve got to be in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania.

And I’m not going to consider anything else then they’re a great resource cuz they’re going to get your CD in front of every hospital group Clinic that is in the Pittsburgh Pennsylvania area as an example I retained firm like ours,

we receive part of our comp compensation on the front end and then balance of that compensation once we have successfully recruited the position so.

Hot so groups and clinics that utilize our services.

You know they are probably very serious because they are making a financial investment to initiate that process.

And again the other benefit is we been to those communities we truly better understand what the pros and with the cons are there there is no Nirvana.

So we were able to better articulate with the strengths and weaknesses of Any Given opportunity are.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[9:40] Now you did mention the cost is borne by the the hospital of the practice Can you can you discuss what just generally what that would be.

Bobby Collins:

[9:50] Well I don’t know that it really adds value to those considering I think there’s in there such a variance I think between.

Between firms in between the searches.

So for instance what what we is a company would charge or somebody who says hey we need it we need a family practice to work in an outpatient clinic we have a standard agreement for those types of searches if somebody comes to us and says hey.

We need a senior VP of hospitalist medicine to oversee a 50 doctor hospital as practice is really more of a leader than a clinician.

That’s a very different contract because the search it’s just into your searching for a leader not just a position so we have a variance of its at whether it’s a clinician or whether it’s a leader and then there’s kind of tiered system within that.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[10:42] Okay okay what are some of the trends that you’re seeing right now in terms of Private Practice employment versus Hospital employment.

Bobby Collins:

[10:52] Yeah that that is a that’s probably the biggest Trend over the last three or four years that we’ve seen which is a shift 2.

When two employment weather be employed by a group whether it be employed by Hospital in corporation urgent care centers are popping up everywhere I think last year in 2016.

92% of the searches in which week completed,

were employed Physicians I don’t have the stats handy but my bed is 10 years ago that number might have been.

20% 25% maybe so we’ve seen a huge shift to an employee model part of it is just the economics and part of it is the.

New positions that are coming out of training are much more quality of life Centric on generally speaking.

And then what their predecessors might have been.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[11:48] Okay and what in terms of what kind of fields are in demand right now and what’s maybe a little bit out of favor.

Bobby Collins:

[11:55] Primary Care primary primary care that has been constant and steady for a number of years you.

What what I call a unicorn search now is a General Internal Medicine position that will see.

[12:15] Outpatient and inpatient at the same time from the same practice that used to be very very common but that is with the.

Growth of the hospitalist movement over the last 20 years that’s become more and more rare.

I’m surprised you’re still a huge driver for obvious reasons we’ve also seen a significant shift in the last three to four years for Psychiatry searches.

Those have become and I can’t in our annual survey I think that they’ve been they’ve been in the top 5 Specialties the last 3 years.

And prior to that I don’t think they were the top 10 so and then I can’t necessarily articulate clearly why but it is without question.

One of the most prevalent searches today that were asked to do.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[13:09] And any any Trends in terms of geographic areas what areas are hot in that sense.

Bobby Collins:

[13:16] Well I don’t know that they’re hot they’re still based on our last survey.

I think this is interesting it is starkly the Northeast has been the preferred region.

I think this last survey I think North East slip to number 2 and I think the southeast actually,

Edge them out for number one if I’m not mistaken so those do Advan flow a fair amount of that does kind of depend on the kind of the political climate.

Of what states are going through what kind of reimbursement issues they might be happy having.

There’s always going to be just a flat-out hey I want to live a nice weather I’m going to move to California.

Or Florida or you pick a geographically desirable State that’s just always going to be the case but I think the.

Financial strength the financial structure that based on Healthcare I think that has a little bit more of an impact than what it used to be.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[14:14] And how about salaries and benefits what are what are some of the trends you’re seeing there.

Bobby Collins:

[14:20] You know there we still see in spite of what you read in here there are still pockets of of growth and increase in compensation.

[14:31] The mgma does an annual compensation survey that is probably the most robust out there and those Trends are pretty meaningful there are more Specialties I think I’m just passed away that were flat.

Too slight growth in there what what there might have been in your past.

I bet that was in demand Specialties were still continuing to see growth and increase in their annual compensation.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[14:56] What what what advice do you have for medical students or residents who may not be quite ready for the job search but you know we’ll be within the next few years.

Bobby Collins:

[15:07] Well I think for medical students that are making the choice of what do I want to do you can or you can take the financial component and factor that into the equation and I think that’s probably relevant but at the end of the day.

You know better than I that whatever special to you choose you better enjoy it because.

That’s your life that’s your career so it needs to be something that is more than just money it needs to be something that you have a passion for,

that the patient base that you’re going to see you have a passion for,

because you can’t predict the future on compensation but you can relatively speaking predict the future the patients that you will see throughout your career so I think that’s the prime should.

Remind the primary driver.

I think as residents are considering looking at opportunities I think it’s the first and foremost it’s critically important that they really ask themselves.

What’s important to me asking those questions to say.

How important is money how much medical school debt do I have the average person who graduated finish residency.

Last year has $183,000 in loans of 37% have over $200,000 so.

If you fall into that category it’s okay to say hey I’m in debt I need a job for the 1st or 5 years,

that’s going to allow me to put a huge dent in this debt that’s okay there’s no there’s no shame in saying.

[16:40] The money aspect is important.

If the location is your primary driver and you’re willing to make sacrifices to live in Austin Texas as an example then great but just be aware that you will unload likely to have your cake and eat it too if you will.

So I think being clear on those priorities and then equally important is if you are married.

[17:05] Or have a partner that your spouse or partner be equally involved in the process and what is important to them from a personal standpoint.

Is that’s probably where we see the greatest challenge or disconnect is.

Working with Physicians who their partner or spouse are not on the same page with what they want to accomplish.

And that makes for some really difficult searches as you might imagine so the more they can have those discussions before they begin to interview.

I think the the more enjoyable the processes for them.

Because they’re more clear on what’s really important to them and I think in doing so it opens up it opens up opportunities we place.

[17:55] Positions every day to locations that they’re not they’re not from that state they really probably never considered that state.

But for whatever reason it had variables that were intriguing to them that they took the time to further investigate interview and then next thing you know they’re like.

Oh my gosh this is where I’m going to call home I would have never guessed so I think they’re more clear they are the more it opens up options for.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[18:23] How how far in advance would you say someone who finishing residency or or in Fellowship.

What what point of their job search a year in advance 6 months Advance when should they contact your farm or just in general you know contact practices things like that what time span would you recommend.

Bobby Collins:

[18:44] Oh yes it does take your question we we see.

All sorts of variables there we we have already worked with Physicians and have them signed they’ve signed contracts that are 2018 graduating residents.

So some have already way ahead of the curve they know what they want and they want to have it locked down.

For a variety of reasons those to do that usually do so for a couple reasons one.

Their crap it allows them to focus in their last year of training to specifically gain the skills that they feel like are going to be most valuable in their new practice.

So they can usually have some degree of adjustment in their last year of training to really just get greater depth on whatever that skill is,

alternatively they also are signing early because Titans are becoming more and more prevalent.

So if I’m if I’m a 2018 resident and I signed a contract tomorrow there are some.

[19:50] Employers in which will offer as part of their your negotiation with them a stipend of thousand mm whatever the case may be per month while you are training.

In order it in return for you committing to their organization a few over a year in advance so for those that are really struggling or not wanting to have to do as much Moonlighting that’s a real valuable.

I said if you will and then you’ll have some that.

[20:21] You know what they’re they’re going to just the way they’re wired they know there’s a huge demand for him they’ll wait till six months before they graduate and they’ll test the waters and see what’s out there.

So that’s also appropriate just too big really depends on.

The Taipei overachievers want to know what’s going on decisions you know they’re going to they’re going to be at doing it earlier and o’s.

Load up more laid-back may wait till a little bit later in the process there are pros and cons to both so really ends up being more about their own personality.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[20:51] No are you what what trends are you seeing for other health professionals Allied health professionals PA nurse practitioners.

I’m not sure if you guys recruit that those fields as well but if you do what what kind.

Bobby Collins:

[21:07] Yeah we do no surprise since many piesa nurse practitioners or Primary Care oriented.

Continued.

Demand for those men continues to increase their compensation continues to increase me there that those individuals are making what.

M15 15 years ago what primary care with a family position was making Mini cases that’s what PA and nurse practitioners can make now so.

A huge demand in in the other thing that we’re seeing is beginning to see more special specialization.

So it may be Orthopedic PA or give Cardiology PA that are specific to a given specialty as other.

As other Specialties Beyond primary care or looking looking for ways to be able to.

See more patients without having to add additional positions if you will so there continues to be creativity and kind of,

thinking out of the box to figure out how to serve the needs of the population when you’re near you when you looking for your only one cardiologist you can only physically see so many patients Do you have a.

Just expands that reach so more and more groups are those are very aggressively recruited Specialties as well.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[22:35] You mentioned earlier about the end of the high loan burden facing most of the recent graduates are you are you seeing any loan loan payment repayment programs from to the hospital’s you work with.

Bobby Collins:

[22:49] Absolutely that is that is more common than stipends stipends are still there done on occasion they’re becoming more prevalent.

But I would offer that for I think the number is 40% of recent grads received some form of assistance with their medical school debt.

Whether it be through government.

Programs or whether it be through their employers there were offering assistance that becomes more and more common and as that number continues to climb.

And that variable becomes much much more important to candidates when we have.

20 years ago it was rare that somebody would lead with I have got a lot of data that’s important to me and I want that hanging over my head,

I really want an opportunity to know that boy sis me with that where it is not uncommon that that is one of the first things we will hear from a physician.

Because they don’t want that hanging over their head for years and years and they’re willing to be more open to the location or the practice style in return for assistance with their debt.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[23:59] Now this this is a financial podcast so.

What are what are some of the financial advice that you can give our listeners are job Seekers and maybe some of the mistakes that you seen over the years that Physicians have made.

Bobby Collins:

[24:15] Well I’m in finance major at heart that’s where my degree was in so I have pretty strong opinions on that but but I would I would simplify it to say.

[24:25] That I did a presentation recently for a.

[24:28] 100 something medical student medical students and I asked the question for them to prioritize what’s going to be important to you Excedrin and what only two people.

Raise their hand when they said when money was the variable so is money one of the most the most important variable to you.

[24:46] But yet when I asked the question of how many if you have over $100,000 in debt have to have the room raised their hand.

And I still think there is a stigma for some positions who again you medicine as a calling.

That there’s a stigma with being honest to say hey.

[25:07] I also want to make money I want to take care of my family I want to have a retirement fund it I want to have my kids education find it.

It’s okay to raise your hand and say money is important to me and I’m willing to work hard to make whatever is fair and reasonable.

There’s no reason to say that that’s not important if it is important.

[25:30] And I think that’s the biggest thing I see is people not wanting to acknowledge out of fear of being judged or who knows what.

But not being honest with those to say hey.

[25:42] I’ll go wherever if you if it’s really important I’m going to move to wherever I’m going to work for five years because there’s no more of the Scarlet Letter that goes with a physician that doesn’t stay somewhere for 20 years.

The mobile Ness of Physicians is at an all-time high.

[26:02] And those are not viewed within reason of course there’s a move every year of course you can have questions but somebody to go somewhere for four or five years for a specific reason.

That’s okay I’m so don’t be shy about your financial needs if that is a driver own it and.

Factor the equation you factor that into your equation if you as you consider opportunities get your spouse or partner on board with you if that’s indeed important to them and.

Factor that into your decision as you evaluate opportunities.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[26:38] No I think you’re absolutely right I think there still is that stigma I mean obviously.

There are other ways to get wealthy instead of going into medicine and that shouldn’t be your primary motivation but it is an important consideration especially the you know given the degree of delay and earning power and the amount of.

Cost it takes to become a physician as so yeah I think that’s really.

An underrated a piece of advice that you gave it it’s it’s real it’s an important issue don’t acknowledge it but you know learn about it and and then you can address it.

So I want to thank you Bob for for coming on the show today where can we find out more about you and the Medicus firm.

Bobby Collins:

[27:19] Just go to www.com information on has a lot of additional resources for positions as well,

so it’s not just a website that will be beneficial to them as they evaluate opportunities but it also is an opportunity to just gain information and knowledge about the industry and about some of the things they may be running into as well so,

that was a pleasure and happy to help anyway I can.

Dr. Tarang Patel:

[27:48] Great but thank you very much.

Episode 14 Intro Outro:

[27:50] Collins of the Medicus firm for appearing on the show and talking about physician recruiters remember it’s probably not too early to.

[28:01] Begin your job search if you are a resident or a fellow but even if you’re working or employed physician.

[28:11] It’s it’s never a bad idea to kind of keep your options open because the changing environment and Healthcare today.

[28:19] Most people don’t keep their same jobs for a lifetime of the way previous generation of Physicians did so it’s always good to just kind of keep your eyes open and keep your.

[28:30] Keep abreast of what’s happening in the job market.

[28:34] Thanks again for subscribing to the podcast and sharing it with your friends again or numbers keep growing so I really want to thank you for listening.

[28:42] And again send your comments to comments at Doctor money matters.com all spelled out.

[28:48] And if you could please leave us a positive review on Apple podcast or iTunes Google player Stitcher or wherever you listen see you.

Main Intro