http://www.doctormoneymatters.com
Transcript (From Google speech. Please excuse any transcription errors)
Doctor Money Matters Intro
Tarang Patel:
[0:44] Are you looking for passive income are you afraid of putting all your investment eggs in the stock market.
[0:49] Have you ever thought about buying real estate as an investment my guest today had those thoughts when he decided to get into real estate investing after the economic downturn of 2008-2009.
[1:00] Dr. Kenyon Meadows is a radiation oncologist in Southeast Georgia branched out his Investments to include real estate in the form of single family homes hard money lending and crowdfunding.
[1:12] Many working Healthcare professionals think that it’s probably too difficult and too time-consuming to get into real estate.
[1:19] Listen to dr. Meadows today and you’ll be inspired to Branch out of the traditional investing Minds.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[1:25] Alright welcome to another episode of the doctor Money Matters podcast Our Guest today is Kenyon Meadows MD dr. Meadows,
is radiation oncologist in Georgia he went to undergrad and medical school at Case Western University in Cleveland and then did his radiation oncology residency at the University of Florida practice is currently at South East Georgia Cancer Care Center and is also the president of Meadows Enterprises which is his own investment for Meadows welcome to the show.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[1:50] Thanks for having me Frank appreciate it.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[1:52] So I heard,
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[2:06] Well well first of all and I think we’re on a very advantageous position in that you know Physicians earn well.
And so we generally have some extra Capital around to invest and and so I thought it was just a good idea to educate myself on some more options than what are traditionally,
taught us and I will say this to up until about 2010.
I was a fairly traditional investor in terms of the various asset classes I participated in you know stocks mutual funds tax-free bonds things of that nature but honestly.
After the 2008 downturn and then some other downturns in my portfolio it got me thinking about learning about other assets Alternatives as they call it and so that’s what I’ve been into in a big way including Real Estate Wichita big part of that.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[2:57] Okay so good let’s talk about that so you you mentioned that before 2010 you were conventional investor like most physician or dentist or and you got into real estate and then other assets so talk about real estate specifically I’ve been doing that since 2010 what what kind of Investments are you doing.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[3:13] Yeah so when I when I first got involved I was very but my goal was to participate.
But to be able to do it in a relatively passive way I think most of us when we think about investing in real estate probably owning,
income-producing property is the first thing that most of us think of and that certainly was my thinking but I didn’t want to be involved any potential hassle of managing a property so actually my first foray into real estate investing with private,
mortgage lending and what that is basically is when in an individual as opposed to a financial institution provides the capital to,
another real estate entrepreneur to acquire a property potentially renovated sell it you know Fix and Flip as we say so that Dad actually was my first,
entry into real estate doing that.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[3:59] And how did you I mean that doesn’t sound like an easy thing to do how did you find the people to loan to how did you set up the infrastructure to do that.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[4:07] What will you write there’s not really a standard in a way to get into it I mean basically I began to ask around anybody in my network that I knew like Hey how do you invest in real estate how do you,
how do you deploy your money in a way that’s different than than the traditional ways that we’ve been taught and honestly was really sort of a chance encounter with somebody at church of all places and told me today,
loaned money to a rehab as it were of fixing flipper and he told me the basics about the process and then I wanted up meeting with that person,
learning what private mortgage lending was about but in and also importantly learning about other people that I participated in deals with them and had a and had a good,
a good outcome also track record is key you know anybody that you’re going to be providing.
Private mortgage money to they really should be experienced and have done several projects with good outcomes that can be verified just as a starting point yeah definitely.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[5:03] Okay and so you so this is someone you met like you said to church so obviously that generally a good a good starting point.
But so you started with loaning to a rehab what what did you do next how did you get one from there how did you evaluate the performance there and then how did you go on invest.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[5:22] Yeah you know when it comes to the private lending I think many people in the audience may be familiar with a lot of the the flip this house type shows that really proliferated prior to the mortgage crisis,
when it seems like everybody was doing that stuff so I think people understand the basics you know you won’t you buy a property that’s that’s undervalued you renovate it to varying degrees and then you sell it usually 2 to a retail buyer at the end.
Obviously finding a property that’s very undervalued and in pain,
make making an aggressive offer where where does a lot of meat on the bones or profit potential when you judge how much you can sell it for so you know that that person’s got to be have a good eye.
To know what’s a good buying price number to what the amount of renovations,
are needed and what that cost will be and then ultimately with that sales price will be afterwards too that’ll be attractive where it’ll track a lot of interest but they’ll still be sufficient profit to pay your private lender,
I just so people know you know when you make a private loan to somebody it’s very very different than a bank loan right so these these loans are like 6 to 18 months duration so that’s relatively short.
In the in the interest rates you charge on them can routinely be double digits,
tattoo mid-teens also personally myself I loan money out at anywhere from 10 to 15% interest so the person’s got to be able to satisfy that you know your requirements and still make a profit on their end so be able to judge all that stuff accurately is key.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[6:53] Okay and so so you said you started doing that do you still do you still do that as well.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[6:59] Oh yes I absolutely do as I continue to evolve and in my real estate knowledge investing knowledge you’ll eventually I got comfortable with the notion of being able to own the actual property now.
Doing the private mortgage lending is good in terms of you know getting a nice high heeled on your money that’s well above the rate of inflation but you started.
Think about things like well there’s no there’s no inherent tax advantage to it safe from for say so you’re going to get taxed at you know what your regular income rates and as I begin to consider that,
and I’m looking at the again the tax advantage position of,
owning the actual property I got comfortable with that too and in the way that I got into it was one of the people that I was loaning money to they were actually building up a rental portfolio,
and they said to me hey you ought to consider this as well and then when they really showed to me how with a very good property manager,
emphasize good property manager and with Well Screen tenants you can actually own rental property and have it be a relatively hassle-free you Nolo time intensity investment,
and they call it a Turn-Key rental investing and basically what it is or these companies out there they specialize in know they they Market to folks like Physicians and dr. Physicians dentist other high-income professionals they want to own real estate,
but they don’t want to get caught up in the minutiae of having to manage it and so.
LinkedIn linked up with a good TurnKey provider and started building a portfolio that weighs well that was kind of the next evolution.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[8:31] Thank you said there’s a lot of these kind of companies have you known you hear horror stories about these things have you had any negative experiences.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[8:38] Thus far no,
I mean I’ve had some some some of the typical things that are going to occur when you own property over number of years of me of course,
it’s going to be some some repairs there was a couple tenants who left a little earlier than their lease said they should that kind of thing but again,
the property manager has done a really good job and over one communicating with you and basically you just kind of give an executive make an executive decision and it kind of execute on it so you don’t have to really delve into it terms of you being on the,
you know the boots on the ground dealing with it.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[9:11] And so getting back to something you mentioned a little bit earlier like you said the initial private mortgage lending obviously you get taxed on that as your regular income which for most of the audience once they’re attendings or practicing in their field is one of the higher tax bracket.
And so as you said you the other aspects of real estate have have some additional benefits including the tack can you go into a little bit more about that.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[9:35] Which was sure so you don’t rental income generally speaking you know any of the expenses that are associated with owning the rental property such as taxes insurance,
Debt Service really,
anything you can write that off as an expense so that goes right against the rental income bringing down your actual basis on which your tax and then if something I didn’t really appreciate but as you start to build a portfolio is starts to become a significant thing as this depreciation fact,
and basically what this is,
is this is essentially I guess you called free money in a way because you don’t actually even have to you don’t have to out lay any money to get this basically the government allows you to depreciate,
your rental property on a schedule over a number of years and you get to take that amount off as well,
so that’s a nice that’s a nice savings every year so that’s a pretty big.
So when you take that into account and and also the account leverage you can borrow 20% down to control the asset as well and then and then all the debt Services is something you can write off,
there’s some tremendous tax advantages go on what actual ownership of property for sure.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[10:41] Does Oscar a little bit more into that the leverage part so I can say for investment properties you generally putting you know a certain percentage down whether it’s 25 30 whatever whatever,
turn it is that magnifies you returns because obviously you’re getting the appreciation of the full full asset.
And and your income I like you said you’ve basically whatever you your net income is is after all your expenses in would depreciation you might even have a negative.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[11:07] Exactly exactly.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[11:09] Okay so that those are the things I want to get crust of the audience because those factors together with the leverage and with the tax benefits make make real estate a much more powerful asset than what you normally think when you’re thinking well.
5% or 6% on the on the return as opposed to lending money out like you were talking about double digits or stock market may be getting 9% or something like that I think like you said though those are very under-appreciated aspects of invent in real.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[11:35] And of course that we think about our 401 K’s and other,
tax-deferred Accounts at as being the way to beat the taxman but you don’t again with the ownership of a physical property you can get a lot of those tax advantages and also have access to the money right now and do something.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[11:53] Like you said you still doing the private lending you doing single family homes are you doing other multi-family units as well or.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[12:00] No I started with single-family honestly mainly because my my mentor as it were.
That that’s what they were doing and so that that got my comfort level two to go there now as I’ve studied.
The the day bandages the pros and cons of single vs. multi-family I’m content right now to continue to build the single-family portfolio now.
When it comes to teuta multifamily there are certainly economies of scale and another advantage that go along with it but for me the thing that I found.
And it’s been verified when I talk to people who owned both asset classes what you find is it the single-family renter is it a lot of times it’s a different.
It is it’s a different profile of renter than then somebody was going to rent an apartment we do.
Three bathroom for three bedroom two bathroom homes and we we tend to attract a small Families 2 are the. That’s our typical Runner profile and number one they stay for a lot longer in place then a typical Apartment renter,
okay it’s I’ve had I’m coming up right on about my 3-year anniversary of buying my first rental and the same tenant is in that first rental property.
It’s nothing to have somebody rent a single-family home from multiple years like to the vacancy rate is definitely lower when you do single family homes and vacancy and turnover can be your biggest expense it can be if you don’t have any big repairs.
So I like that and and also the the the the single-family home renter they tend to take better care of the property because although there are renter just like an apartment person they tend to feel.
[13:40] Psychologically more of a sense of ownership over it and so they tend to take care of it better so the maintenance.
Things tend to be less to so for somebody like myself who again you know I want the benefits of real estate ownership but I don’t want a lot of hassle.
I’m content to continue to build the single-family portfolio to be honest at this point.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[14:00] You said you started at 3 years ago so do you mind me asking you said that was your first one through years ago how many do you have and what are your goal.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[14:09] Just an couple months ago we got our 7th property.
And as far as goals goats kind of arbitrary I’m thinking it 15 to 20 would be nice to Bill slowly over time and and and have them eventually be paid off and and have that represent a nice chunk of,
of my retirement income coming in from from that in addition to of course the traditional vehicles through work you know the 401K and that kind of thing.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[14:34] Okay okay and today is your portfolio pretty much in in the Southeast Georgia area where you live.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[14:41] Yeah so you know I’m um tell people I’m on the coast of Georgia,
hour south of Savannah and an hour north of Jacksonville in Brunswick St Simons area and my my investing in terms of owning,
the rental property is all been in Jacksonville and that was largely due to the fact that again my my mentor and person showed me the ropes that’s where they were building their portfolio and so an internet,
inventory of the type of properties we target there so that’s a.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[15:09] One of the other things that remember you mentioned when I was when I heard you on the big,
your Pockets podcast was the other aspects of real estate investing such as crowdfunding and things like that but you know relatively new talk about your experiences with that.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[15:24] Yes sold the crowdfunding.
Basically represents in an online way to do the private mortgage lending and in all fundamental aspects one of the barriers to do in private mortgage lending is that you know you’re supplying usually the whole amount.
Of the loan to acquire and potentially renovate a property so you know you going to write.
A high-five figure six-figure check to do that and obviously.
Even amongst us position that there may not be you may not have that amount of capital.
Liquid to do that kind of thing so the crowdfunding I think that’s kind of cool about it is that it allows you to participate in a.
In a private mortgage loan for a Fix and Flip projects a for instance but you can only you can contribute a fraction of that,
you know you are typical investment minimum on a crowdfunding site is like $5,000 and I’ve seen them start to creep down right now to like $1,000 and receiving one side I saw with a minimums $100 so.
Yeah so what it’s done is it’s taking the the barrier of Entry to private mortgage lending it’s taking it online and it’s lowered the amount,
tremendously where you can pull your money in with other folks and participate you still get the same high interest rates you know 9:49 to 14% it is is not as a common range and saw an in fundamental it’s all the same thing.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[16:47] As far as I go there any downsides I mean to these crowdfunding sites that you can see as opposed to going yourself I mean obviously the upside is you get a much better distribution of risk.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[16:58] Correct correct well the downside well when I when I do my private lending in the offline world.
You know you are able and I was doing this a beginning I would when I would meet at one of my partners I actually go and see the actual property we were going to acquire I would look at the,
the neighborhood look at the comparables and and kind of get comfortable with the notion that the ultimate sales price was going to be accurate,
you can come do your own due diligence when you’re doing it in the offline world one of the things you have to be comfortable with is that the crowdfunding platform is doing that for you now they provide.
All of the digital documentation for you to do a digital version of that you know they’ll show the they’ll show up raisels they’ll show comparables they’ll tell you what the track record of the developer is and all that but ultimately,
it’s a computer screen you know what I mean eat and you have to be comfortable that the platform is doing their due diligence and that’s the that’s the value proposition they bring to it.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[17:56] What are the things that you know I think maybe a problem and I’m not sure if it was I myself have not done the real estate crowdfunding sites but it is it if you’re investing in multiple States for that is that become an issue in terms of just,
if you’re investing $100 here or $1,000 here you may have 12 States worth of returns tax returns is that is that an issue or is that just me think.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[18:18] Well it it it is so for each project you do get it you get a separate statement and,
bet that the site I think recognize and if they do a good job of of packaging the statements for you when it’s tax reporting time and they make it pretty easy to forward on to your account and and and everything but yes the tax Rima can get a little complicated.
And that’s yeah no doubt.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[18:41] So just just just if you’re if you’re down to the $100 per per investment it may be a little bit of a considerations.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[18:48] Exactly.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[18:49] One of the things that I think many of us are you know we’re very reluctant about real estate because like I said before we’ve all heard the horror stories you I’m sure we’re aware of these things beforehand but but what what made you just,
decide to go for it what was that thing that you know drove you that said you know what I’m going to take that.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[19:06] Well honestly some some some Battle Scars on the traditional investing front so you know I think everybody you know the market downturn the wait was pretty severe something everybody got hit pretty hard there.
Okay now after that happened I I did what I thought.
Was a conservative rebalancing of my portfolio I said hey what can I what should I invest in that that’s just solid and you know,
should ship reduce nice steady returns maybe not spectacular but but you know something steady and it may not be subjected to such a severe downturn Wesson oil and gas right,
so on the heels of all wait I went pretty heavy into oil and gas and we see what happened there right so.
When you have when you have some experiences like that all of a sudden some of the other unfamiliar things they start to look a little less scary.
Went when the when the stuff when the conventional stuff that you’ve kind of been to Ben Sheppard it towards when you get burned that way it gives you a little courage to try the other stuff.
Is what I say yeah.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[20:11] Good good you’re still I mean but you still are investing in the stock market in things like eyes not like you’ve gone totally away from.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[20:17] No I haven’t but what I will say this.
Most of my exposure now to the traditional equities Market it’s it’s almost pretty much exclusively through the 401K at work I used to dye used to invest a fair amount of,
you know discretionary money above and beyond that and most of that now has gone to these alternatives.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[20:36] The end and I’m assuming that it’s going well for you because you as you said you’ve you know you you you’re going more and more towards that so any any concerns about the real estate market in the in the short run.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[20:48] Well you know timing,
timing plays a big role in everything and so did the 2008 Market downturn you know that that brought prices down that that that eliminated a lot of I mean a lot of people went belly-up and and its of the real estate market was at its down point and again I didn’t really start participating in any meaningful way till 2010-2011 and we’ve been in a pretty benign,
cycle as far as the real estate market is going because it really had it really only had one direction to go for a while which was up.
And now I’m starting to see things like well the volume of house flips is starting to approach what it was before the crisis and some other things so I’m starting to know maybe we’re getting a little bit of,
a little Frosty at the top of the real estate market is well so eat out at that that’s that’s a cause for some concern yes.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[21:36] Although you know what they talking about generally as real estate is more local than then the national Setauket by your area what do you think you know is that the same thing you’re seeing in your area like Jacksonville area or I need to.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[21:49] Yeah I see I have seen some and so what will we target are basically modestly-priced single family homes and what we call b-level neighborhoods and what we mean by that is the a-level neighborhoods.
Those are the very expensive properties you know the beachfront stuff for,
the stuff in the very best school districts of the mcmansion kind of thing and then on the other end of the spectrum you’ve got you know very,
inexpensive properties in you know kind of maybe crime-ridden or or dilapidated areas on the other end of the spectrum so we target we target these these these middle of the road.
Type of neighborhoods that have a nice balance of renter’s homeowners working-class folks that kind of deal and in the since 2014 when I’ve been buying I certainly have seen the prices that were paying go up over time,
and there’s definitely a lot more activity going on there so I’m seeing that okay I wouldn’t say it’s.
It’s it’s overly heated but it certainly is trending upward so yes.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[22:47] Are you seeing that your cap rates and things like that are trending down or have you been able to adjust your rental amounts to kind of go with that.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[22:57] Yet I would actually say in my personal experience it if it’s been able to balance out either you may pay a few more thousand.
Dollars to acquire the property but yes like the rental rate might be a hundred or $150 more per month and so you know I think it’s balanced out because there’s definitely a demand for rentals there’s no doubt about that.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[23:18] Talking to our audience here who may be invested and are wanting to start investing in real estate what are some resources that you would suggest to them to kind of get you know some knowledge.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[23:29] If there is there more book or audiobook type folks I think the the Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad Poor Dad where he really.
I think reorients you in terms of your relationship to to Capital and money and and cash flow and time that kind of that kind of thing.
And that that’s more of a mindset booked in a real estate book of though there is there is some real estate stuff in it for sure and then there’s another great book by Jim and John shop,
call Building Wealth one house at a time was a big single-family portfolio holder I think that’s great,
and if folks are more in the the podcast online space of course I got to give a big shout-out to BiggerPockets.
Just tremendous amount of resources on there and I and I kid you not I mean if you really spend some time reading their forums,
there are some high-level people shows forums that they’re doing some great things and giving out a ton of good advice and resources there.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[24:28] Absolutely would you would also recommend if they want to just kind of get their feet wet a little bit maybe starting into these crowdfunding sites as well.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[24:35] Yeah absolutely there I mean you know throughout a few sites that I invest on.
But you know you definitely got to do your due diligence in and it just learn about private lending in general beforehand it just be sure you understand what exactly you’re doing.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[24:51] Right and I wanted to talk a little bit about your your investment company Meadows Enterprises tell me kind of what you know what how you formed or what you were what your goal with that is just a little bit about it.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[25:04] What ya so eat when you hold investment property that they say it’s you know it’s a good idea to to have it.
Separate from you because you know there there’s is liability thing where you know a tenant slip and fall that kind of thing so yeah so number one asset protection Thing 2,
push these rental properties into an in that regard and then number two could I have raised some of my own,
private money from initially friends and family and Indian and more recently a few colleagues as well to help me acquire some of the properties,
so just wanted to have a formal structure that again with separate from me for them to invest in I was really the main reason for setting it up.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[25:47] Well I think that’s very good overview of your your real estate that Creek to tell me a little bit about your radiation.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[25:57] Capital One More quick plug for an educational resource.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[26:00] Yeah yeah absolutely.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[26:01] If folks go to to my site which I know where we’ll talk about it in their alternative Financial medicine.com.
There is a free ebook where I talked about specifically the turkey.
Rental property I cover things like how I select a market and am I buying criteria for a property,
pitfalls things to look out for in an and also show the financial performance of of a property for a year as well so that’s that’s available for people to.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[26:28] Oh good okay one more time the website was.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[26:30] Alternative Financial medicine.com.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[26:33] Perfect perfect okay great so when you’re not busy with your your medical practice and your real estate what what else do you do.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[26:41] Um yeah I’ve got two girls at age 10 and eight and they keep me busy as ever particularly on the weekends.
I believe it or not I mean I still do some online gaming I’m a Call of Duty and Battlefield kind of guy.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[26:57] Very nice.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[26:57] Like to do that from time to time too.
And an in my wife bless her heart she forces me to travel I would probably work too much but she she she makes your wee wee get out and see some of this great country and more recently the world is well.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[27:14] Very nice very nice what year a radiation oncologist so you do have a little more free time then.
Radiologist I can’t I can’t I can’t say too much either but.
Very very nice well I want to thank you for coming on the show today dr. Meadows and like you said alternative Financial medicine.com is your website and,
our listeners can go there and get your free ebook and you know I wish we wish you luck and I’m glad.
You gave us some positive information and strategies about real estate I will continue to follow and see how things go and let us know you know if there’s any updates that you want to give our audience as well.
Kenyon Meadows, Md:
[27:52] Absolutely anything I really appreciate you having me on.
Tarang Patel, Do:
[27:55] Thank you.
Tarang Patel:
[27:57] I want to thank dr. Meadows for being our guest today he gave us great information about starting in real estate.
[28:04] Real estate can be a great way to diversify your Investment Portfolio there are some real profits to be made if you invested the right time and the right location give me a great source of long-term passive income but it’s not very passive at the outset.
[28:18] Has a high income health care professional make sure you protect your assets before you begin buying individual real estate properties.
[28:26] As I said timing is key and we’ve had a long run a very low interest rate interest rate.
[28:32] I don’t know if the rates are going to go up anytime in the short-term say the next two or three years but they’re likely going to go up in the longer term.
[28:40] This low-interest-rate environment is pushed many asset classes the higher valuations as investors are looking.
[28:47] Everywhere for you I encourage you to be extra cautious and really do the due diligence before you put your money into any invest.
[28:56] If you’re interested in learning more about dr. Meadows and his company the website is alternative financial medicine.com and you can also get his book called alternative Financial medicine on Amazon there’s a link on our show notes.
[29:10] As it as I said before you can follow our show at Twitter @dr Money Matters.
[29:19] Our Facebook group dr. Money Matters all spelled out or on Instagram at dr. Money Matters all spelled out.
[29:27] Encourage Healthcare professionals to join our private Facebook group.
[29:31] And we’ll discuss some of the topics that we’ve discussed on the podcast in further detail.
[29:38] If you enjoyed this episode or any of our previous episodes please leave is positive reviews on Apple podcast Google play or Stitcher and any constructive criticism.
[29:50] I would appreciate at comments at dr. money matters.com all spelled out.
[29:55] As as usual please remember that what you’ve heard on this show is For Your Entertainment and education only please speak with the appropriate experts prior to making decisions regarding your own Financial.
Doctor Money Matters Intro
Tarang Patel:
[30:09] Thanks again and look for our next episode coming soon.
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